COUSCOUS

How so? for a start my cool-aid is lemon/barley mix, home made and very nomnoms. But I digress. How is asking for actual hard evidence of a historical incident somehow insidious? How is calling out individuals and organisations for blatant falsehoods wrong? If someone lies, it is my duty as a citizen of not only my country, but I would hope the greater humanity, to expose those lies. Would you not agree that Justice to be effective must be seen? Would you not agree that history is not always as it portrayed? What would you have me do?

The hidden Agenda and conditioning does not reside within my sphere, indeed, amusing as your attempt to turn my stance and those of other revisionists inside out, It will not prevail. Truth is all, and truth will out.

P.S. It does amuse me that you have not yet called me a Nazi or anti semite or some other "tag". I am also well aware that you and your ilk are unable to voice that mantra as freely as you were able in Reddit. Here you have to be a little more careful. The truth will out from within. Happy camping :)

TTrns

Think about this logically: how do movies taken at camps in Germany prove gassings at camps in Poland?

In the 60's, the notion that the camps captured by the US and British were "extermination camps" was debunked by mainstream historians. Despite "witness" and "confessor" testimony that there had been gassings there! In other words, these witnesses lied.

There are no photos or films which show gassings. No document proof exists which prove gassings. And the blueprints for the structures actually contradict the gassing claims.

If you actually believe these "proofs" exist, I suggest you look for them. Or just read mainstream historiography -- it is admitted that we don't have evidence like this.

TTrns

movies, films, prisoner records, existing concentration camps.

None of which prove gassing.

the strongest debunks rely on circumstantial evidence

Then you're unfamiliar with the revisionist analyses. Where are the holes in the roof of Krema II, for example? Even Van Pelt admits they cannot be located. Do you realize the implications of that fact?

COUSCOUS

yea, where is this "proof" because if you cannot supply it, then your qoute:
"some people are so diehard about a few political beliefs they will force themselves to believe anything." appears to be related to the Agenda proponents that rabidly support the mainstream version of the holocaust.

COUSCOUS

Aaaww, how cute, A fledging JIDF member in the fluff. LOL. How about you, can you submit any piece of proof that would be acceptable in a modern court of law? (Pro-tip, hearsay without substance is exactly that). Any? LOL. keep chewing that grass you fluffy cute sheep. Oh and did you actually watch the show? Maybe you watched Oprah, and believed that nice Holocaust couple that met across a fence. Such a heart warming story. I wonder if they used the sexual torture machine, or used jew fat soap or made lampshades. LOL C'mon. just one piece of hard evidence.

TTrns

Loads and loads of... what? Codewords? Piles of shoes? Coerced confessions? Witness testimony from a Sovietized pool of witnesses who have largely been discredited by their own words?

Please, present what you consider to be the strongest "proof" of the Nazi gas chambers.

nokilli

How about we count the number of dead jews in WWII the same way we count the number of dead Iraqis?

Everybody keeps going to the cointelpro-site iraqbodycount to get that number. Their methodology is extraordinary: they require multiple press accounts of an individuals death before it gets counted. Coincidentally, Iraqi press outlets were amongst the first targets in that war.

So how many multiple press accounts do we have of dead jews in WWII? I'm guessing zero.

Check out the six-million myth sometime. Over and over again, and well before WWII, whenever there was a supposed slight against jew, the aggregate was always six-million.

It's a fucking fetish.

nokilli

The holocaust is bullshit.

The only reason you think to the contrary is because all of these years of consuming the media created by jew have brainwashed you. You are literally a mindslave.

(or do you actually believe that having only one-side of the story continually drummed into you starting from when you were only a child somehow merits calling you a critical-thinker?)

And now that jew has successfully started the second cold war, the consequences of that are going to be made real for all of us. The lies are actually about to kill us all.

Mumberthrax

As this appears to be a remark about jewish people on the whole, I'll link to the warning i issued you a few minutes ago. https://voat.co/v/Conspiracy/comments/115263/324371

This comment of yours was made prior to my issuance of the warning for bigoted attacks and thus this it does not constitute a willful ignorance of the rule. I issue this notice so that others passing by may be aware that our current rules do not permit overt attacks on people's race, religion, ethnicity, nationality, or creed, and to know that such conduct is attended to.

TTrns

there weren't enough Jewish peoples living in Germany at the time to account for all the deaths

It's more about the number of Jewish people in German-controlled Europe at its greatest extent. In order to understand this, we need to determine how many Jews were transported east by the Soviets (starting in 1939) and what their ultimate fate was.

Also, there is the question of Jewish emigration out of Europe after the war, and whether this can be accurately accounted for. Interestingly, Mossad began its life in 1937 as 'Office for the Second Emigration', an organization which facilitated off-book emigration to Palestine, and may have played a role in this process after 1945.

For articles about demographic issues, and a link to Walter Sanning's book on Holocaust demography, go here .

elKuhnTucker

not blocked in Germany

There goes my drink.

COUSCOUS

aah, and old favourite. This is one of the first pieces of the puzzle with which I woke up with. The entire Holocaust story is a fabrication from start to finish, and when the Agendaists yell at me, I just ask them three things, 1/ submit just one piece of evidence that would be admissible in a legitimate court of law, 2/ Why is it illegal in so many countries to even question the official story (do not use emotional reasoning), and 3/ Can they supply me with one of those sexual torture machines? Needless to say, I am still waiting for any of those 3 to be fullfilled. :)

j98

I hope you're joking in the spirit of /v/conspiracy , but if you're not: The Holocaust happened.

http://www.ushmm.org/wlc/en/article.php?ModuleId=10007271

OttoSkorzeny

No it didn't. They didn't have the fuel to cremate the bodies and the 'witnesses' broke down in tears admitting that they had lied at the Canadian trials in the 80s. But that you're ignorant of all this doesn't surprise me, most people take a look at Schindler's List then soak all the bullshit in.

TTrns

The Holocaust happened.

That's precisely what everyone who is now a "gas chamber denier" once thought, that is, before they examined the revisionist analyses, and understood the extent to which mainstream treatments of this topic mislead and omit. [edit typo]

Due to lobbying and social stigmas, the revisionist perspective is not included in media or educational presentations on the topic. Despite this, the intellectually responsible thing to do is still to examine what these scholars are saying, rather than simply dismissing it without examination.

Everyone who does this is shocked at what we haven't been told, and how certain claims are made without the necessary context -- for example, the notion that there are "thousands of witnesses" applies to the concentration camps, not to the gas chambers.

https://www.reddit.com/r/holocaust/wiki/articles

COUSCOUS

Exactly. There where concentration camps, There are no (benefit of the doubt) proven "death camps". There has never been any but the flimsiest evidence to support such a ridiculous idea. The only reason to push such an Agenda, is to cover something up. Something big.

COUSCOUS

Maybe I should ask that nice jewish couple that told their story of hope and fortitude on Oprah. You know the one I am talking about.......

COUSCOUS

oh, and where do i go to get one of those lampshades? Is it the death camp next to the soap camp?

OttoSkorzeny

The ironic thing is that skin is useless as a lampshade, hold it to the sun and it'll shine right through. Obviously these liars are not as intelligent as they are sick.

COUSCOUS

Lol. I have actually never thought of it like that. I always rationally justified human lampshades as just being plain stupid. And yes the people that made the claims were sick, and the ones that still trot it out as fact probably have secret Nazi fetish's.

COUSCOUS

That article answers nill questions. Can you please answer the simple questions?

j98

  1. I do not live in Europe, so I do not have any physical evidence relating to the Holocaust or the war. I rely on the millions of people who were affected by both events to provide those for me.

  2. Those laws are remnants of American and Russian denazification efforts following the war. They're still in place today because the democracies that observe them have decided that they are a net positive in society.

  3. I don't think your Jewish Agendaist friends have a responsibility to help you with your fetishes.

I realize that if you are serious, I won't be able to convince you away from the views you hold-- no one can, even with the most concrete of evidence.

CarlosShyamalan

Allow me to chime in.

  1. I do live in Europe. Right next to Dachau to be specific, and have been to Auschwitz as well where you can find a room full of original human hair for example, should the countless photographs, eyewitnesses and the otherwise completely useless gas and cremation chambers not be enough evidence.

  2. Here in germany its illegal to deny the holcaust. Its not illegal as far as I know to ask for evidence/ ask questions based around the holocaust, as long as you remain decent about it.

  3. There were jewish settlers in Palestine since shortly after the great war, and the zionist movement started as early as the late 19th century, so while the Holocaust may have ultimately helped their cause, it was definitely not necessary for the establishment of Israel.

sources:

Second pick in the blog is the room full of hair.

German laws against denial.

Wikipedia on Zionism. Note the 13 percent jewish population of Palestine in 1922.

TTrns

should the countless photographs

But no photos of gassings, or anything like that.

a room full of original human hair

So?

eyewitnesses

Yeah, and there are "witnesses" to gassings at locations where historians say they didn't happen. There are also confessions about those locations -- how did they manage to get Nazis to make false confessions?

When the Soviets captured Auschwitz, they said there was an electrocution conveyor-belt there and a blast furnace. What happened to these things?

Where are the steam chambers they mentioned at Nuremberg?

Too many questions . Some hair, some shoes, and some photos of concentration camps are not satisfactory answers.

CarlosShyamalan

I take it you've never seen an actual camp from the inside? I really recommend checking one out and seeing for yourself. There is an eery feeling there that really sends shivers down your spine.

As for the discrepancies my take on that is that it is because west and east wanted to portray the Holocaust differently. While in the east you were almost exclusively taught about the dead communists, socialists, slavs and unionists, in the west it was always the "six million people died in the holocaust" which only refers to jews.

Makes sense that they started exagerating the details as soon as they were documented to make it seem like only one kind of people were killed.

Can you give some independent sources on the electrocution thing and the blast furnace? Ive never heard about steam chambers as well.

As for the witnesses: Have you never had a survivor talk at your school? I know its mandatory in germany, dont know about other countries. They arent all jewish or zionists so they would have little incentive to lie about what happened.

TTrns

There is an eery feeling there that really sends shivers down your spine.

So?

You realize it's been admitted that the room they show to tourists and call a "gas chamber" is a post-war reconstruction, don't you? The Soviets even built a non-attached chimney behind it -- did you see that?

because west and east wanted to portray the Holocaust differently

That doesn't explain why they couldn't get the story straight on the mechanism of killing, and claimed to find things that don't exist.

they started exagerating the details as soon as they were documented

No, friend. The word is "falsifying". There are no electrocution facilities, no blast furnaces, no factories for human soap, no steam chambers. You probably don't even realize half of the things that were claimed. Follow that link in my previous comment.

so they would have little incentive to lie about what happened.

The fact is, people lie all the time about the Holocaust ... look particularly at the stories of people who said they survived gassings -- some even in places where mainstream historians say no gassings took place. Read their stories, and tell me you believe that one of them is telling the truth.

This is a well-known feature of Holocaust testimony -- something you would understand if you were actually to read the critical historiography. As early as 1950, Samuel Gringauz noted in 'Jewish Social Studies' (1950, Vol. 12, p. 65):

"...most of the memoirs and reports [of 'Holocaust survivors'] are full of preposterous verbosity, graphomanic exaggeration, dramatic effects, overestimated self-inflation, dilettante philosophizing, would-be lyricism, unchecked rumors, bias, partisan attacks..."

Paul Rassinier in 'Debunking the Genocide Myth', wrote:

Another French priest and former inmate, Jean-Paul Renard, made a similar claim about the camp in his own book published shortly after the war: "I saw thousands and thousands of persons going into the showers. Instead of liquid, asphyxiating gases poured out over them." When fellow Frenchman and former Buchenwald inmate Paul Rassinier pointed out to the priest that there was no gas chamber in the camp, Renard replied: "Right, but that's only a figure of speech […] and since those things existed somewhere, it's not important."

CarlosShyamalan

post-war reconstruction

(1) source? can find absolutely nothing from a credible source. (also if you ask how there can be an eery feeling, go there. Find it out. You can really not describe it.

(2) and (3) Still no source on these claims (other than the official wiki of a subreddit dedicated to holocaust denial )

(4) There is no reason whatsoever for survivors to just straight up lie in their testimonies. The holcaust didnt justify zionism, it didnt justify israel and they certainly werent paid money to make statements that contradicted other reports.

(5) Paul Rassinier is a known denier so I wont take anything for granted just because he writes it in a book.

COUSCOUS

Did you actually watch the movie?

TTrns

source? can find absolutely nothing from a credible source

(Sigh). Not only does the Polish Auschwtz camp historian admit it in the video linked in this post, but Robert Jan van Pelt and Debórah Dwork state that this is the case in 'Auschwitz: 1270 to the Present', 1996.

There is no reason whatsoever for survivors to just straight up lie in their testimonies

Isn't there? Then why did it happen so often? Most of the gassing locations were debunked in the 60's, leaving the six sites in Poland -- which were behind the Iron Curtain and not open to western inspection. Do some reading, friend, and stop hiding behind the Orwellian epithet of "denier." Follow that link I provided -- primary source materials are referenced, and can easily be verified.

j98

How is it, may I ask, that any witnesses to the Holocaust are merely "witnesses" who can be discredited by the slightest doubt, but a man such as Paul Rassinier, a man with a known extreme bias, should be defended?

COUSCOUS

Aah, you are back. Can you answer the questions yet? Can you show me a "Gas chamber"? And would you like me to answer your question? Because every witness (there are not actually that many) that has made claims about death camps has been either proved a liar or at best suspect. And that is how modern judicial systems should work. For example, I know of around a dozen maps for Treblinka2, yet every map is differnet by vast amounts, and none of them apart from the german map is accurate to the ground disturbances. So would yo like to table an actual peice of evidence? or would you like to New Zealand and get sheared and molested? baa baa baa

TTrns

Well, it's simple. If the "witness" testimony contains details which are inconsistent with either the mainstream revisions -- e.g. they say there were gassings at locations which have since been debunked, such as Dachau or Buchenwald -- or they contain details which are inconsistent with the physical evidence, or the physical laws of nature, then they have discredited themselves.

Rassinier was imprisoned in a German camp, was an anti-Nazi resistance fighter, and a socialist. You are dismissing him as biased (because Holocaust activists have labeled him as such) without actually having read what the man had to say.

poly

When you say "millions of people" you actually mean a handful of people. Gross exaggeration seems to be a favorite tool of those promoting the holocaust hoax

COUSCOUS

Exactly. And of those that have claimed to be witness's, I cannot name a single verified claim. There are however a plethora of debunked holocaust claims. See the affore mentioned sexual torture machine or the lovely couple on Oprah. But it is ok if they lie, it happened in their head, therefore it is real.

nokilli

And even when debunked, these liars are still paraded about, and we are to marvel at their every word.

Elie Wiesel's Night is the very best example of this. He received the Nobel Prize in part for his work on a book that he later admits is made up of fabrications.

So entranced are the mindslaves that when a liar tells them to their face that he was lying they continue to believe the lie!

COUSCOUS

LOL, So true! Every single claim made in regards to the "holocaust" (as in directly) Has been found to be either a complete fabrication, or at best unsubstantiated. Yet the drones still bleat about this horrible made-up event. Why? weellll money, money, money.

nokilli

Well, I would say too, war, war, and more war.

I feel that the holocaust is the ultimate war propaganda. If you are desirous of seeing a nation commit itself to wars of your choosing, but see that there are individuals within who challenge the morality of same, then you need to create a new category of killing against which war now seems more palatable.

And if you can then pose as a victim of this more morally-repugnant killing, all the better. You can exploit your supposed victimhood to occupy a moral highground from which you can ridicule those who point at the absurdity of such distinctions, especially if you then work to dominate the media so that the ridicule becomes the final word on the subject.

We get to say which killing is right and which killing is wrong! That's the power they desire, and which they've very nearly achieved.

Does awarding such power make further killing more or less likely? Doesn't the ranking we assign to the morality of killing very soon devolve from how the killing takes place to who is actually being killed?

I'm not a historian, and I take all your points as to why we should be very skeptical about what we're told about the holocaust, but at the end of the day it comes down to assigning a greater value to the deaths of a relative few than to the deaths of a far greater number, and as the lies continue to be laid bare the distinction we are left with less and less to do with how these people died and more and more with who they were.

And that is as morally repugnant as it gets.

COUSCOUS

in biblical terms: War begets money which begets war.

COUSCOUS

1/ I did not ask if you had any physical evidence, I asked if you could supply any. Pro-tip, hear-say doesn't count. 2/ I asked why is it illegal. Not for a generic cop-out. 3/ I think you are a little confused here. Are you saying you are my friend? I am ok with this, but why would you want to help me with my fetishes? I am asking for a historical machine that apparently killed thousands of innocent jewish children. It is part of the Holocaust story. However no-one seems to want to supply one, or even a drawing. If you somehow think I have a fetish for what I have just mentioned, then I suggest that you see a man in a white coat. Even better, how about you actually grow a pair, and answer the questions.

Fuhrer

Heil, mein me then?

TTrns

No, no heil for you.