soggywaffles

It's a nice change to have stuff like this posted, I just don't like how he went the Catholic route

tomii

I understand the Catholic bad feeling... However, if you study history carefully it is clear that it has been The Catholic Church vs Judeo-Masonry. The reformation was judeo-masonic, as was the enlightenment and subsequent French revolution. All these things were designed to undermine the authority founded on earth when Christ established the Catholic Church.

The church is in a bad way, I understand this. But please read the Church Fathers and past popes... The catholic church is not bad and has been ruthlessly slandered by judeo-masonic conspirators.

Please read this article and let me know your thoughts: https://www.henrymakow.com/jewish_peril.html

A quote from the article: "That is why we have been striving to discover the best way of shaking the Catholic Church to her very foundations. We have spread the spirit of revolt and false liberalism among the nations of the Gentiles so as to persuade them away from their faith and even to make them ashamed of professing the precepts of their Religion and obeying the Commandments of their Church."

Another interesting quote: "We have blackened the Catholic Church with the most ignominious calumnies, we have stained her history and disgraced even her noblest activities."

soggywaffles

I know they've had good and bad people, but you can't deny it strays far from the ekklesia style church gatherings early Christians practiced. I know it's not nearly as bad as the Pharisees but I do think it adds to the word, which is never a good thing. Problems I have with Catholicism:

You pray to some guy named Father when there is only one Father who we have a personal relationship with, making that dude pointless.

Churches are some holy place. We are God's temple. Nowhere in the new testament does it mention holy places. Check out 1 Corinthians 3:16.

People pray to Saints. Enough said there.

It's littered with Pagan influence: ash Wednesday, Santa, Easter bunny, painted eggs, etc.

Your quite said "obeying the Commandments of their Church." why does a church have commandments? Message me if you want to talk about this more. I love learning and sharing with people.

tomii

I can't send private messages lol, I will post my rather lengthy reply here, hope it is helpful in some way...

I am going to send you some links in regard to each question, this is because its much easier than typing it out here. Feel free to skim each link.

Calling Priests father: https://www.catholic.com/tract/call-no-man-father

(To catholics, there is a difference between worship and prayer. Worship is adoration, adoring only God. In prayer one can ask for someone to pray for you. Whether it is a saint, a loved one, or anyone else. Furthermore, we do not pray to "dead people", saints are not dead but are "alive in Christ" as the bible teaches.)

The Tridentine Latin mass has been practiced from the beginning of Christianity. Of course, the settings have changed.

Catholics do not worship the Church building. However, churches are beautiful, but catholic misionaries conduct services wherever they go. Catholic priests have performed mass on the battlefield. Here is a link about the "oneness" of Christ's Church: http://myocn.net/church-one-holy-catholic-apostolic/

No Catholic worhips saints, however we do ask them to "pray for us", like the original Christians did: https://energeticprocession.wordpress.com/2011/07/29/prayers-to-saints-in-the-pre-nicene-era/

Here is another link of the original Christians quoted as praying to (not worshiping) the saints: https://www.catholic.com/tract/the-intercession-of-the-saints

Pagan holidays, forum post and replies from catholics: https://forums.catholic.com/showthread.php?t=113267

As Catholic, we follow scripture, tradition, and the church. Christ founded the church when he said, "you are Peter, upon this rock I will build my church." Peter in greek means "rock", so you can't think he means anything else. Peter was the first pope.

Protestantism is a jewish lie, Calvin was ethnically jewish and is NOT Christian. "Sola scriptura" which means "scripture alone" is a heresy. Scripture must be studied in light of the original Christians... Why is this? Look at the 100043104 different protestant denominations who disagree on matters of faith for your answer.

Christs church is not divided, it is his body.

Seeing as confession to priests often comes up... Christ clearly gave the first bishops authority to forgive sins and retain them. So why don't protestants continue this? https://www.catholic.com/tract/the-forgiveness-of-sins

Church fathers on confession: http://www.stsophiaukrainian.cc/resources/ecfonconfession/

As the joke goes, if you want to be a protestant; don't read the Church Fathers.

God bless my friend

soggywaffles

I see what you mean with the title Father, but I still disagree with them having such a position. I guess the biggest thing we see a difference in is I see the church as a group of equal people all participating in worship and learning. Of course you'll have leaders and elders, but nothing like the laity and clergy divide, where one group is perceived as closer to God.

One thing about that link you sent about the fathers is all quotes regarding priests are centuries after Christ, many around Constantine's era.

I had asked a few Catholics about the Saint thing and have never gotten a straight answer. Thanks! Is that something you guys do all the time or just occasionally? Sounds fine as long as you still have a personal relationship with God.

I grew up with the holidays too but I think they're something we need to change. The Easter(Ishtar) bunny, Santa, tree, etc. are things we end up making the focal point of the holidays. Sucks because I love Christmas trees.

Read this in regards to men forgiving sins: https://carm.org/john2023-priests-forgive-sins .

"Calvin was ethnically jewish" so was Jesus. The original Christians mostly met in houses. The planters started churches and left them to grow and learn. There are many different Christian branches, but the fact that there's only one Catholic church doesn't mean it's right about everything. Does having one utility company in town make it a good utility company?

tomii

Thanks for the reply. I personally barely never ask for saints intercession. Neither has anyone at my church. I ask for intercession from Mary, eg... "Mary, pray for me/pray for us". We do not worship anyone other than God and Jesus Christ. We do not ask for anything other than prayer. It is the same as if I asked you to pray for me... But saints and Mary are already in heaven.

The church fahter quotes I gave were from just over 100 years after the death of Mary... Some being a little later. Christianity was brand new at this point, and they clearly prayed for intercession to saints, angels, and Mary herself. Also, these are all "pre-Nicean" fathers. The era of Constantine is in no way sinister or bad. That is just what some protestants want to believe.

I would challange you to read the church fathers from the "apostolic fathers" right through. You can get the whole thing online for free or on kindle for a few bucks.

In regards to your link I have summed up the argument as follows: "The bible says Jesus gave the apostles power to forgive sins. However, nothing says this is passed down."

I would argue: "Why on earth would Jesus give his disciples the power to forgive sins, and let it die with them? " This is also not at all consistant with other gifts that were given to disciples, like delivering people from demons.

Furthermore, the church fathers believed in apostolic succession. If the original Christians believed it; it is the way it is.

Protestants believe priests have the power to forgive sins by baptism; why not by confession? Jesus bestowed the sacramentals on priests.

When the jews killed Christ; they became the enemies of God. Therefore they have been at the forefront of the attack of the Church.

In regards to the unity of the church; Christs body is not divided. There is one church that Christ founded, making the one undivided body of Christ. Both Orthodox Christians and Catholics agree on this; they just disagree on who the correct Church is.

Lastly, God is all about authority and heirarchy. It is Satan who is rebelling from that. There is a heirarchy in heaven, there is a heirarchy in the Church. This is the way God made it. A sure sign of Satan is "revolutionaries" who try to overturn authority and make everyone "equal". Protestants being just one instance of this satanic rebellious spirit... (I'm not saying protestants are bad, but they have been decieved. The reformation was Satanic.)

The early Christians met in the catacombs and houses, correct. However, as soon as it became possible to do so they built Churches and made them as beautiful as possible. They even did basic artwork on the catacomb walls.

TerraKell

I feel god-like for having committed so many sins such as masturbation, consorting with loose women, profanity, skipping church on Sunday, not paying tithe, and becoming a Catholic apostate. Fortunately I do not fear an afterlife of any kind such as hell.

tomii

Come on man, this is not a joke. Hell is real and you don't have to go there!