Tone of Voat reflects the actual mood of the West. ( conspiracy )

submitted by ardvarcus

I was just thinking as I read successive posts in Voat how much the overall tone of this site differs from that of Reddit. The vast majority of posts here could be catagorized as right wing or nationalist or conservative. Yet this is an open forum, a genuinely open forum unlike Reddit. What does that tell us? It tells us that public opinion is overwhelmingly conservative, and that Reddit's presentation of public opinion is strongly and artificially skewed to the left.

I see the same nationalist, conservative opinions in the comments sections of Web sites when those comment sections are not censored. When people are free to express themselves, the majority of them express conservative views, not liberal views. The liberal fascists control the media, but they can't control public opinion, they can only distort and mask it.

cm18

The problem is that the pendulum is likely to swing to far to the right and we could end up with a theocracy or some other forms of dictatorship, just as the left was about to institute its form of dictatorship. Forces are at play to toss the republic off balance (one way or another). I really wish more people were wise to this potential.

A right wing dictatorship is just as possible as a left wing dictatorship. They key is to stay principled in face of real racism and discrimination being pushed (probably by the same groups supporting the left wing agenda). Remember that the objective of multi-culturalism is to create race wars or similar civil strife to justify more dictatorial government.

un1ty

/r/politicalhumor is the epitome of this - just go there and try to post ANYTHING that is political and not anti-Trump. I learned that McReddit political humor is essentially rehashed Trump hate.

Grifter42

The infiltration of the site by SRS types is speeding up. They're making their plans more obvious, because they're confident they can control the user base via brigading and harassment campaigns. They've compromised Putt via his connection to Mick, one of the heads of Voat's version of SRS.

peacegnome

in my experience something that has auto-collapsed didn't add anything to the conversation. Shit like "why are you guys so anti-semetic" does absolutely nothing to help the conversation.

peacegnome

Well, the "libertarian branch" is, but i wouldn't say that the establishment (which is the majority, such as mccain, ryan, etc.) are.

cthulian_axioms

I'm not conservative. I'm a pragmatic libertarian and rabid Northern secessionist. Reddit didn't like those things either.

MillstoneNecklace

Whatever you say. He's the successor of Peter and without him, it's all either Protestant idiocy or Orthodox stoicism.

10024883?

We can't make something new? How hard is it to write a little book of homilies? Surely they have something they can crib?

10021633?

There is the fine European tradition of raising counter-popes and using them to replace the current pope.

Wedhro

I thought this one was the counter-Pope. The actual Pope is still alive, after all.

MillstoneNecklace

There is a conspiracy theory that Benedict's resignation was forced or otherwise invalid. Either way, it doesn't matter. Once they're both dead, the next Pope will be valid since it's the bishops (cardinals are still bishops) who make it a valid election.

Also, just to pick a nit, the term is "antipope".

whisky_cat

my opinion is that nationalist comments are not always categorically one-sided. democrats/conservatists/liberals/progressives are all shit. a free mind does not wholly subscribe to one ideology, regardless of whatever you think any of these ideologies truly mean.

repoman

You talk like a fag and your shit's all retarded

Tb0n3

Voat got popular for allowing the speech Reddit didn't. Primarily nationalist, racist, pieces of shit. It says nothing about society at large, just those who were more likely to feel unwanted on Reddit.

MillstoneNecklace

Catholic monarchy or nothing! Who's with me? Deus vult!

Yeah... probably not that many on Voat who share my political leanings.

equineluvr

There is no liberal or conservative at the top of the pyramid.

That stuff is only for the sheeple.

Ywis

I don't think the west wants to prove the holocaust was fake but also recreate it. That's pretty much just voat and daily Stormer..

Mad_Dog91

It would be stupid as all hell to think this small site can begin to represent the "actual mood" for hundreds of millions here in the west.

10017666?

It's because a majority of this site is populated by people who got themselves or their communities banned for being raging assholes on other websites, so this is their safe space to be a raging asshole without someone calling them on their behavior. See: FPH.

Empire_of_the_mind

source, fatty?

10017683?

Source: you. Thanks for providing a shining example of my point.

Empire_of_the_mind

You're illiterate and don't deserve this, but here you go:

You fail to prove your thesis that most of the users here were banned from other sites for being assholes. I, for example, have never been banned from anywhere except for FPH, ironically. Regarding your second point, that this is a safe space where people won't call you out, well that is not true at all. Your post alone is proof of that, but throughout my and other's comment histories and in myriad threads you'll find plenty of examples of people calling out a-holes. We don't take it personal, hell, sometimes they're right! Move on, it's easy, being called an asshole by some random internet commentator is not a big deal. This is a harsh world and we don't believe in letting people go through it soft - that's not kind, that's cruel and will lead to greater suffering. You're stronger than you think - I honestly believe that.

10017795?

I think you misunderstood what I was saying with the "safe space" comment. What I meant is that you will not be moderated, banned, or otherwise have action taken against you for being a dick to people all the time on this site, so it's natural that dicks gravitate here. It's a safe space to be a dick.

Empire_of_the_mind

that's certainly an upside, but it also forces the question of why should people be banned for being rude to people on the internet? otherwise, I really don't think that's a key driver to the user demographics here. i think people come here so they don't have to wade through acres of obvious bullshit just to get a little insight into what's happening in the world and what other people think about it. you have to appreciate that much of what you see written on the internet is simply phony. if you're not interested in looking at phony garbage, you're apt to be dissatisfied with sites that are based upon that (it's a business model!). Voat isn't a business and only manages to stay running out of people's generosity and appreciation for it, so there is little incentive to market phony articles to the userbase. which gets right back to the OP's point - this site incentivizes actual open discussion and every time you find a site that has incentives oriented in such a way they turn out to be a bit like this. the thesis is that this is an indicator of what the public actually thinks, and I think it's worth discussing and digging into. there is a bit of a self-selection aspect, but it's not nearly as severe as you and your partners fantasize it to be.

10017918?

I'm not entirely sure what you mean by 'me and my partners.' I'm here on my own, similarly exhausted with fake stories and corporate brainwashing as you are. The difference is that I'm similarly exhausted with people who feel the need to antagonize each other constantly. There is literally no place on the web for me in 2017. To put it into context, I used to mainly visit an online community where the only rule was "don't be a dick." Everything else was fine, except antagonizing other users or off-site invasions. I miss the days when that was possible. However I do appreciate the honest discussion on the subject in place of more shitslinging.

Empire_of_the_mind

it was never possible! flaming was one of the first internet terms invented for a reason. the way i see it, someone in your position has two options: attempt to change the behavior of every other person on the internet, or attempt to change how you interpret and respond to that behavior. as you only have the power to do one of those things, it makes the choice easy. ask yourself - why do I care what some joker on the internet says? you literally have no idea if they're a dog or not. and if you want, you can be "a dick" back to them as much as you want, with no real consequence. chances are, they don't care at all what you say or think. so vent, let out those emotions on some faceless internet fool who had the bad luck to walk in front of you path in that instant where you weren't in your best frame of mind. What i've found on this site and elsewhere is that people regularly flip out on each other and then when engaged walk it back and end up appreciating the other's comments. 70% of human communication is non-verbal and text-based convo's are inherently going to be filled with miscommunication. You simply can't know what someone really intends without seeing them, so don't take it so personally. having a thick skin is really valuable in this world, so work on thickening yours. You'll appreciate it and will lose nothing.

10018093?

You're not wrong, it's just depressing to me as someone who values kindness and patience above all else - things that are becoming rarer and rarer. It's not about feeling bothered by the individual comments, it's about seeing nothing but flaming or brainwashed drones everywhere I look. It's about not being able to find peace, and the gradual devolution of internet society. Which I'm sure is exactly what the mass media and corporate interests want, on both sides. A completely polarized environment where it's either a restrictive echo chamber or an all-out brawl, everywhere. I'm thankful the brawl option exists, but it exists only as an edgy rejection like a kid in a trenchcoat drawing swastikas in the back of the classroom to get his angst out. I can only hope that someday people get tired of that, but as long as the corporate echo chambers of the world continue to gain traction, reactionary communities continue to be the only alternatives.

(as a side note, thanks for using the word "flaming" - everyone forgot that one and started using "trolling" which originally meant something a bit more humorously disruptive.)

Empire_of_the_mind

You should note that your response to my post was to get edgy and start a brawl. There's a saying that if you meet one rude person during a day, they're an asshole. If you meet nothing but rude people all day, maybe YOU are the asshole? On a more serious note - just ignore the people you think are lashing out, and engage with the others. the world is what you make it, consider your contribution.

UglyTruth

The liberal vs conservative political axis is pretty much irrelevant when compared to the politics of libertarianism vs statism.

SexMachine

The thing about voat is that we're a small sample size, and everyone that is afraid of "offensive" opinions leaves.

I noticed this at least 2 years ago when I started getting involved with image boards. Any free and open online community always skews right. The only way left wing communities survive online is with heavy censorship and moderation, where the narrative is protected.

Last week I was banned from 3-4 subreddits for copypasting my comment on the trans military ban:

Combat veteran here. I agree with this.

A war zone is a shitty shitty place. I've gone weeks without a shower, in the middle of the desert, in the most filthiest conditions.

If there's a soldier who needs daily hormone treatment, and to gage their nuvagina for 5 hours a day, it's not going to happen in a war zone. Even a year after surgery, they still have to take hormones and gage their nuvagina. What happens when they aren't able to? Does their nuvagina seal up? Do they return to their original condition without access to their hormones?

These are things that the battlefield doesn't take into consideration.

Reasonable comment, upvoted everywhere I posted it, yet removed and banned from multiple subreddits. That's the only way to protect the narrative, the only way it can survive. With people speaking openly, they'll be able to deconstruct it, and offer alternative opinions that make more sense.

ardvarcus

Any free and open online community always skews right.

Maybe it isn't skewing at all. Maybe it's just expressing accurately the popular sentiment, which is uncommon in our leftist-controlled media world.

jerry

No,you are right for the wrong reason. Vote has lots of different people, but most are generally right wing because these views get you cast out from other online forums. Even just playing Xbox with my friends, random people chastise the fuck out of you in public lobbies for being right wing. On GtA there is Anti-Trump gangs. For this reasOn, the right wing thinkers had to find a place that wasn't shit so that they could have a normal forum. Just lots of right wing people found here. There are liberals here too, just not many because they generally congregate in packs like any group. Right now the liberal hive is plebbit

we-lost-a-giant

People are more nationalist and "racist" than they would ever admit. People just love to conform, especially women. I made a dating profile that is verbosely "alt-right" and I get hit up by women regularly, more often than I have in the past that's for sure. Just yesterday I got a message from a teacher who said she holds the exact same racial views but never speaks about it. This is an ESL teacher too so she's not working with white students. Now to clarify, I'm not prejudiced, I treat people as the individuals they are but I treat patterns and data with no regard for politeness and conformity.

10019073?

I come here to voat because I can't express most things to my friends and family. My sister blew up tonight because I asked her to explain her understanding of "The Russian Narrative" to me. She exploded because my use of the word narrative implied that I "didn't believe it." Most people I talk to in real life have these emotional outbursts where politics is concerned.

Voat can be a tough pill to swallow and I've blocked about 50 subverses, but I come here because there's literally nowhere else to have a real conversation.

ardvarcus

I don't see it this way. Voat is a free and open forum. What we are getting is a genuine expression of popular opinion, unfiltered by censorship, bregading, moderator manipulation, or vote buying. The liberals are free to come here and express their opinions, but unlike other forums, they are not free to manipulate or suppress the opinions of conservatives. The result of this freedom is what we see on Voat.

PhilaFerret

People behave socially, often eschewing or espousing whatever suits perceived needs and wants, depending on the moment or direction.

gazillions

"I see the same nationalist, conservative opinions in the comments sections of Web sites when those comment sections are not censored."

I've been marveling at that phenomenon too. It really makes me doubt election results all over the western world.

Psalm144-1

Well written and an interesting observation/perspective. i would have to agree with you for the most part.

european

I'M not sure your logic is sound. Not meaning offence but because a small/medium forum is a certain way you cannot infer it is representative of general society. It could be the site serves a niche audience couldn't it?

ardvarcus

But Voat is completely free of censorship (as far as I can determine). Everyone, left or right, sane or crazy, is free to express what they want to express. The only conclusion I can draw is that the audience isn't niche at all, but the norm, which has been artificially skewed by the leftist media bias.

whisky_cat

Voat is slightly censored, but only for business reasons as opposed to duality expressions, as you describe.

katphish

conservative opinions in the comments sections of Web sites

10016351?

that's because ignorant cons havent figured out what we meant by "fake news" when we said, this is "fake news"

everyting man, everyting man

fluxusp

Plebbit fascists love to suppress 'deviating' opinions. Fuck them.

UrkleGrue

I was just thinking about this the other day, I've been seeing a change in Facebook comments for big pages, a lot of times the top one will be an argument against the narrative of whatever was linked.

srgmpdns

Reddit stopped being a discussion forum a while ago, now it's an advertising platform.

When people are free to express themselves, the majority of them express conservative views, not liberal views.

Good point.

Grifter42

Voat is changing too.

abc_xyz

When the banks shut down, it is imperative that we work to calm, and point out crime (or fight to defend if safe/possible).

Causes and protests and dire situations serve as easy platforms for TPTB to show violence on mainstream news to skew public opinion, to maintain fear in the populace, to make people think "wow the members here are crazy".

HarlandKornfeld14

People conflate 'authoritarianism' with Fascism, but I want to be concise.

cstrafe

Sorry, I deleted my previous comment because it wasn't showing up for a few minutes. But yes, the term "fascist" is thrown around loosely these days and probably used incorrectly quite a bit.

HarlandKornfeld14

The Leftists are always distorting grammar and promoting Newspeak. Become a Grammar Nazi and defend your language!

Tallest_Skil

The liberal fascists

Fascists were conservatives, anon. Is this your first day being redpilled?

katphish

Fascists are statists.

ardvarcus

And the trendy new state is global. We are seeing global liberal fascism.

10016428?

Everyone here needs to review the meaning of fascism. It's corporatism.

Bush W era republicans and Trump era liberals are both fascists.

Neocon and neoliberal are basically both fascists... neo in this case means dickhead not 'new' or 'keanu'

real progressives are the afterberners who have essentially left bernie and now are for people like tulsi gabbard, dennis kucinich, ron paul, rand paul, and jill stein

reformationists, libertarians / social libertarians, agorists, populists who are into preserving rights for citizens against the will of corpoirations and the shadowy secrecy class of 'permanent government employees' and intelligence operators and their numerous contractors

10016029?

So what were Stalin, Hitler, and Castro, all of whom would be labeled liberals now, if not fascists?

VIP740

Hitler was a National Socialist (while he wouldn't fit in with today's conservatives, he wouldn't fit with the liberals either), the others were Communists. Mussolini was a Fascist.

Tallest_Skil

  1. Who said Hitler wasn't a fascist? Read my post again.
  2. In no way, shape, or form were Stalin and Castro fascists. Holy shit. Words have definitions, regardless of what your liberal professors told you. Those definitions mean that you CAN use words INCORRECTLY.

HarlandKornfeld14

The liberal fascists

Whoa bruh, you were so close. Stop calling 'liberals' fascists.

ardvarcus

The liberal fascists

Whoa bruh, you were so close. Stop calling 'liberals' fascists.

When you hear the word "fascist" what image comes to mind? It's Hitler's brownshirts, walking along the sidewalks of Berlin in groups of four, looking for communist radicals to beat into silence with clubs. But it might be worth reminding you that the Nazis were socialists -- their party was the National Socialist Party. The way liberals are behaving on the streets of America today parallels the brownshirts of Germany in the 1930s. They burn books, or at least conspire to prevent books from being published, which amounts to the same thing (Milo's book Dangerous is an obvious example). They try to heckle people into silence, but if that doesn't work they resort to physical violence. They attack businesses and occupy government offices. They smash windows.They demonize and try to intimidate the police, which as often as not are helping them, thanks to the liberal politicians who control the police locally, as in Berkeley. They light fires in the street and have parades through the night that turn into riots. They try to get anyone who criticizes them removed from his job. What is there about this behavior that isn't fascist?

I have no intention of stopping calling these leftist thugs "liberal fascists." It's a term that suits their mentality and their actions perfectly.

HarlandKornfeld14

When you hear the word "fascist" what image comes to mind? It's Hitler's brownshirts, walking along the sidewalks of Berlin in groups of four, looking for communist radicals to beat into silence with clubs

Yeah, political violence isn't inherently fascist. If we look at the Interbellum Period the reactionary Freikorps employed similar tactics of street violence, actual monarchists in France and Spain also engaged in street battles, but they didn't have the same program as the fascists. And of course there were Bolshevists and Anarchists engaged in political violence.

White-Supremacist

The terms liberal, conservative, democrat and republic have lost their meaning. Really, I've never known there to be a concrete meaning. I've asked many what these terms mean, the definition is vague and varies immensely from person to person. Political and economic topics are massive and to say you can summarize a persons view on these ideas with a single word is likely really harmful.

https://kek.gg/i/5pv7jf.jpg < When I hear those terms I think of that image. Really, it's absurdly likely that the majority of all those who follow these terms hold near identical views on so many topics.

https://youtu.be/-MzxC8Mqupw?t=503 Political spectrum.

https://youtu.be/-MzxC8Mqupw?t=1141 Economic spectrum.

These two chunks of video really clear up a lot of key misunderstandings, and if you want to describe yourself or someone, perhaps this spectrum applied to individual issues on a 1-10 scale might be vastly more effective in discussing things with each other.

https://youtu.be/4ccwWh39P2E

10016380?

Ok, let's call them authoritarians then. Because that is how they are behaving these days. Trying to control speech. Trying to control language. Ultimately these are attempts at reward/punishment of self and other; a type of social manipulation whose aim is to control the spectrum and flavor of discourse in America. That is called authoritarianism.

Fascism is really corporatism, so at first glance you would be right that the left isn't necessarily fascist, though they share the same qualities of high-authoritarianism. Fascism is where an oligarchy--a collusion of corporations--act as gentry to a despot and then become the sounding board and the voice of the despot. Thus, fascism is more akin to monarchism, a strict class division between the 99 and 1%, a classism of privileged aristocrats and the underclass

But the reason people say the left is now fascist is because they are siding with corporations, which obviously are tethered to a corrupt deepstate shadowgovernment. Case in point is amazon, a virtual monopoly on retail marketplaces; and the healthcare system--an oligarchy of public/private hospital systems, practitioners, insurance and pharma industries that have managed to lobby themselves into legalizing and legitimizing racketeering...this is called totalitarianism...health industry totalitarianism

and just last week the congress rejected single payer because they knew corporations would have to pay their fair share (wasn't that bernie sanders' catchphrase? Well he voted against it too--hypocrite!)

In essence, this means (among many other examples) that the left supports the establishment corporatism in america--the deepstate oligarchy

That's why they are fascist

10024866?

Its always been like that. The only question is how many of us are they going to kill this time.

White-Supremacist

Ok, let's call them authoritarians then. Because that is how they are behaving these days.

I think what you are thinking of are those who have been indoctrinated by cultural marxist post modernism.

https://youtu.be/wLoG9zBvvLQYouTube

Cultural marxist post modernism (CAMPM). CAMPM makes it impossible to have logical factual discussions with it's subscribers. Their obsessive focus is oppressor versus the oppressed. "DESTROY THE PATRIARCHY!" This is to say, death to white males, white people, or any and especially white people with so much as a penny in their pockets. End goal, complete white genocide, install communist dictatorship.

I like a lot of what you are describing though and I suspect I agree.

vivalad

good seeing you here, 911. good points as always. here's to keeping your sub (one of the few that isn't astroturfed w/bs) under the radar. might want to change your voat bio.

HarlandKornfeld14

Indeed, I used to hold many of the similar views to justify why the Left is fascist. But I have realized that I confused corporatism with corpocracy (rule by business interests).

The actual purpose of corporatism is for the government to serve as an honest intermediary between business interests and the working class, not as a bludgeon for business interests to use against the working class.

Furthermore, Fascism in nationalist, whereas the Left is internationalist and in favor of open borders. The Fascist believes in nationalism which is of course opposed to internationalism. Fascism also advocates national self-sufficiency (autarky), which is opposed to globalization.

ardvarcus

Furthermore, Fascism in nationalist, whereas the Left is internationalist and in favor of open borders.

You're missing the big picture. The internationalism of today's liberal fascists is the equivalent of the nationalism of yesterday's fascists. It's the same mindset. Yesterday's fascist used nationalism as a tool to arouse the population to violence; today's liberal fascist uses globalism as a tool to arouse the population to violence.

cstrafe

Why? They're certainly behaving that way: attempt to shut down free speech, react violently against people with differing opinions...

BiscuitFever

The people we call Liberals hold no actual Liberal beliefs. They're Bolsheviks.

we-lost-a-giant

Bolsheviks

In other words murderers.

Reddit is so cucked by marxist doctrine, I can't even deal with r/libertarian . The libertarians there are open borders retards who think nationalism is racist. But they're not racist because they want brown people to bring them food and labor for a bit less than market value.

It's just sad. I can longer communicate with normies. I'm done trying.

HarlandKornfeld14

attempt to shut down free speech, react violently against people with differing opinions...

That's Bolshevism. Call a spade a spade.

Gorillion

90% of people have no idea what Bolshevism is. And that's likely by design.

Ho-Chi-Min-Me

Yup, fascist governments through out history have loved free speech, and their secret police forces have been very open to differing opinions.

fr33europe

and they would have thrown fags like you into the slammer for being degenerate

Ho-Chi-Min-Me

What's the point of this attack? Are you saying we should refuse to acknowledge basic facts about fascism through history? How deluded would you have to be to think fascist governments loved free speech?

I have no problem with people who are against degeneracy and don't want it in their community, but don't act like that's compatible with free speech. Maybe we don't need free speech in a strong community, but I wouldn't trust any national government to regulate speech in such a way (since trying to apply one policy to tens of millions people tends to corrode freedom and degrade culture).

fr33europe

The point of the attack is that you need to understand that there is NO SUCH THING as free speech. So to attack fascists for being 'against free speech' you make the false assumption that people who are not fascists, somehow are allowing it. Every single society of any worth has rules on what you can or can't say.

Fascists look at it from the perspective of actions or words being good for the group/family (viewing your society as a family) So for example if you're printing porn, that's not allowed. Are you a faggot? Well better keep quiet or they're coming for you too.

I don't claim to know what our current system is trying to uphold, the financial system I guess... But in any case if we had free speech there wouldn't be 'hate speech' or slander, or whatever else can get you in trouble.

Ho-Chi-Min-Me

Then you agree with my statement that fascist governments are not for free speech, and disagree with the person who said that fascist governments are for free speech. Yet you attacked me.

fr33europe

No, I would agree with the statement that ALL governments are against free speech. To single out fascism is being deceitful.

Ho-Chi-Min-Me

Would you agree citizens had more free speech in America than in the Soviet Union in the 20s-80s?

Free speech isn't everything or nothing. I don't think slander - people intentionally telling lies aout you to damage you - being illegal shows there's no difference between having some free speech or none. We can still generally have free speech even with slander laws.

fr33europe

I think it's the same thing from a different angle. If you were a communist in the US, you had to watch out for Mccarthy, if you were speaking out against the party in the USSR you'd be in trouble too.

Ho-Chi-Min-Me

If you were a communist in the US, you had to watch out for Mccarthy

But McCarthy mainly targeted people with some level of power, and he couldn't put them in a gulag, he could just make them look bad and maybe lose them their job. This was also happening during particularly heated part of the cold war, and was targeted at the enemy in that war. Soviets would send anyone they liked to a gulag or simply put them to death after a show trial. The two are not meaningfully comparable.

Ho-Chi-Min-Me

That's your big example? Censorship in one city that's being legally challenged concerning a public hearing on building a mosque? Doesn't that prove my point?

Samsquamch

The people attacking and downvoating you are NatSoc faggots. They claim they aren't socialist, then spout socialist ideals. They claim to hate Antifa, but then act exactly like them. They use the "Wrong type of socialism" argument constantly. I wouldn't worry about them too much, they contradict themselves constantly.

I'm still trying to figure out if they aren't really sock puppets from the left trying to pull people on the right to the extreme so they can point out how extreme they are.

fr33europe

It's a shame such a great username was co-opted by a hoser like you.

(But after we're done calling each other faggots I'd love to buy you a beer)

A lot of us are real, I can't speak for anyone but myself though.

You're right, there's a lot of confusion but we're also learning very quickly. I was thinking about this on my drive in to work this morning, it's almost like we've lost all the social knowledge that got us to where we are, and now we have to re-learn everything and fast to put it all back together.

There is one thing I'm certain of however. Regardless of political systems, nations need to be built around race. Without this as a core, we're lost. Political systems are secondary.

cstrafe

Point taken. The term "fascist" is probably not used correctly these days.

kitnaht

Even the wikipedia page has several prominent people in history which say facist could simply be used as a synonym for "bully"...and doesn't hold much (if any) meaning at all.

Kal

My thoughts on the definition is a merger of corporation and state, with strong nationalism by it's people, 1984 style.