If I stopped a customer at work to tell him about my political opinions I would be fired, first amendment be damned. NFL should be no different. ( conspiracy )

submitted by englishwebster

Paid to do a job so you do it during job hours. If these idiots want to talk about their politics they can do it on their own time.

o0shad0o

Being the devil's advocate perhaps...

How would you feel if you were required to stand and honor the flag every time you went to work?

IMO this whole thing is silly and everyone should stop talking about it already.

englishwebster

How would you feel if you were required to stand and honor the flag every time you went to work?

if that was part of the job description and I went into the job knowingly then I know what im going into. They are paying me to act in a particular way, so there should be no problem.

1Sorry_SOB

This people aren't even articulating a political position. They are just pouting and looking grim like black men do.

lestermacgurdy

first amendment be damned.

fuck off. I'd rather you be damned

englishwebster

look at the context. during a job you are being compensated to do something other than preach your views. so yes, during that time you have no first amendment because you agreed to that fact.

mightnotbearobot

Since when is standing up for a song considered part of the job? Is it in the contract? Is it against the law?

englishwebster

its in the NFL rulebook actually. parton the wall of text:

The specific rule pertaining to the national anthem is found on pages A62-63 of the NFL League Rulebook. It states: “The National Anthem must be played prior to every NFL game, and all players must be on the sideline for the National Anthem. “During the National Anthem, players on the field and bench area should stand at attention, face the flag, hold helmets in their left hand, and refrain from talking. The home team should ensure that the American flag is in good condition... ...It should be pointed out to players and coaches that we continue to be judged by the public in this area of respect for the flag and our country. Failure to be on the field by the start of the National Anthem may result in discipline, such as fines, suspensions, and/or the forfeiture of draft choice(s) for violations of the above, including first offenses.” From Legal Information Institute: The composition consisting of the words and music known as the Star-Spangled Banner is the national anthem. (b) Conduct During Playing: During a rendition of the national anthem: (1) When the flag is displayed (A) individuals in uniform should give the military salute at the first note of the anthem and maintain that position until the last note; (B) members of the Armed Forces and veterans who are present but not in uniform may render the military salute in the manner provided for individuals in uniform; and (C) all other persons present should face the flag and stand at attention with their right hand over the heard, and men not in uniform, if applicable, should remove their headdress with their right hand and hold it at the left shoulder, the hand being over the heart; and (2) When the flag is not displayed, all present should face toward the music and act in the same manner they would if the flag were displayed.

mightnotbearobot

Christ, that is scary. All trolling aside that is the kind of weird, creepy thing you expect in North Korea, not The USA.

But why does it specifically say that "individuals in uniform should give the military salute..."? Since they aren't part of the game or part of NFL, how is that enforceable?

englishwebster

maybe thats why they put in "should". im guessing the military has their own rulebook when it comes to civic events like these

lestermacgurdy

I don't give a shit about your rationale. If the first amendment isn't prized culturally in a private sphere, then it is completely useless. 99% of our interaction with other humans occurs while we are working. It wouldn't be impossible for us as a society to learn to not be offended by words that we don't like and all your cute little theory does ultimately is reinforce the legitimacy of being outraged by words and restricting their use.

englishwebster

well, I suggest you bring up your views to people at work and see what happens. theres what you want to see and then theres the real world. And simply put the boss has every right to shit can someone doing something that isnt their job on company time.

lestermacgurdy

well, I suggest you bring up your views to people at work and see what happens.

and I suggest you dive head first off a cliff you anti-speech retard.

theres what you want to see and then theres the real world.

Thanks for pointing out the obvious, einstein. If you didn't have a room temp IQ, you would have understood I was talking about what ought to be, not what is. All you're saying is that what is is the only thing that can be, which is why you're such a useless retard

englishwebster

no, im saying that when someone pays you millions of dollars to play football you play football. not make pizza, not drive a car, not give out your political views.

besides, the entire ceremony is about patriotism, not politics. the kapernicks of the world (check out how his gilrfriend is sometime for an idea why he kneels) dont even know what they are doing.

lestermacgurdy

You just don't get it. I think it's because you're one of those mindless political partisans that isn't capable of any real thought. You've memorized a position and all you can do is parrot it.

Yes, when someone is paying you, you don't have the right to use your job as your free speech platform. However, an argument like yours is just being a house nigger for authoritarianism and arguing how holy and good it is that our right to speech is taken from us in almost every venue available.You're arguing for the same goal of eradication of speech as antifa, you're just using an argument that is more appealing to conservatives.

There is no reason why as a society we couldn't learn that a person's speech is their own and not their employers and to hold the value that though they dislike that speech, the employer isn't to blame and it isn't inappropriate for the employee to say it just because they are on the clock. That is the kind of values we need to develop if we want to perpetuate free speech. You're defending the values that have as the inevitable end result the elimination of free speech entirely. If people like you had your way, we'd have a complete and unabridged right to freedom of speech, but only when there are no humans around that can hear it.

We take offense at everything because we are trained to. get the liberals out of the schools and stop training people to hate speech and work towards freedom of speech at work and everywhere else we may find ourselves. It's only when we are free to speak in meaningful arenas that freedom of speech has any value.

englishwebster

first you said:

Yes, when someone is paying you, you don't have the right to use your job as your free speech platform .

This would suggest you acknowledge you CANNOT do something like spout on about your opinion to someone during work hours.

but then you said:

There is no reason why customers couldn't learn that a person's speech is their own and not their employers and to hold the value that though they dislike that speech, the employer isn't to blame and it isn't inappropriate for the employee to say it just because they are on the clock .

which means you are literally doing double-think, you mindless dolt. either you CAN spout your bullshit logic to someone as per your second point or you CANNOT as per your first.

lestermacgurdy

which means you are literally doing double-think

no, it means you're too stupid to understand what I said. Beat it. we're done here.

carlip

Then its up to the employer to find a solution not the fucking government.

englishwebster

theres no solution necessary. if you take a job to make pizzas for 3 hours at x per hour, then thats what you are expected to do during those three hours.

think of it as literally renting out your time. that means someone bought it. it isnt yours during that time. if you want to get political then by all means do so, on your own time

eyeVoated

Do people still watch sports drama?

Pro tip: the drama is part of the "entertainment".

10606604?

The NFL has always skirted politics in their games.

I suspect that if this happens too many weeks in a row then the NFL will institute fines and game bans for politically charged actions.

Or they'll go further left and ban the flag or national anthem further alienating their fans.

lestermacgurdy

The NFL has always skirted politics in their games.

no it hasn't. No sports has.All entertainment is used by the government to propagandize, sports is no difference. It's just that you hold the views that they push so you don't notice.

englishwebster

it all depends on ticket sales

Groff

I'm not interested in the political views of some over paid "entertainer". I don't care if he plays sports or does something in Hollywood. The act of sitting on a couch watching what these people do gives them way more influence than they deserve. How much better off we would be if we got off of our asses and took up a sport like marksmanship.

facevalue

Much better. Even cripples can do it.

Guernica

No, it should be the other way around.

You should be be able to exercise your first amendment at work. Companies are just super worried you are going to 'represent' their company in whatever you say.

The problem with the whole NFL thing is not that they are kneeling. It's that they are kneeling to protest an imaginary foe.

If they were kneeling to protest the U.S. supporting terrorist states such as Saudi Arabia and ISIS, I would be all for it.

englishwebster

When you are being paid to do a job, you do the job asked of you. In otherwords, you are being compensated for your time to do the actions directed by another . thats what a job is.

when you go off that line for any reason you are no longer doing that which the boss is paying you for. if you want to go off the rails you do it on your own time. not someone elses.

in the case of sports? the crowd is a mix of trump supporters and hillary supporters. its one of the few places they can get along and forget the bullshit. do you really think they want to see this or football, which they paid for?

Guernica

Don't get me wrong, I think the reason for this 'protest' is bullshit. But I can imagine one or two scenarios where I would consider it justified... US gov. massacring civilians comes to mind.

But over perceived racism?

Personally though, I see nothing wrong with people discussing their various world views in the work place as long as it can be kept civil and does not interfere with business. That's really what I was aiming at. This obviously interferes, and the NFL should take appropriate action.

Subtenko

Doesn't make any difference...non unity, people confused on why they are doing it...just post a tweet or say what you want wanna say during the game you punks..

clamhurt_legbeard

That's why the NFL is losing customers.

mightnotbearobot

No, it is because American sports are shite

clamhurt_legbeard

Your country is shite.