Evidence of REDDIT-style censorship currently on VOAT ( conspiracy )

submitted by mHtt

Had a reddit account for over 8 years, not one comment deleted ever. Came to voat about 4 months ago after reading the How Reddit Was Destroyed (ver3.0) thread And this weekend I got my first ever notice of a comment deleted!

Much to my dismay I was curious, did I accidentally violate Swiss laws? Did I mistakenly dox someone? what little comment of mine could warrant such derision? Well low and behold my comment from this thread in fat people hate, where I point out the futility of shaming people in a forum they'll never see it, in the hopes of helping them loose weight.

Some FPH mods actually believe they are helping people

I've been in the FPH community for about 6 months, and considered it my reddit home. Anti-obesity it's something I feel very strongly about, not just from a FPH fat-shaming standpoint, but also from a "how do we solve the obesity problem" active standpoint.

and all I did was point out that logic is futile if they never see the content directed towards them.

Low and behold I make a thread on v/voat discussing my comment deletion

and who turns up?

FPH mod: @12_Years_A_Toucan openly states:

We don't allow people who are there to fight, argue, and comment dissenting opinions to the community and our community likes it that way

AAAAAAND another FPH MOD confirming censorship:

user @ https://voat.co/user/SportyStrawberry: posted

DING DING DING!

YES we censor dissenting opinions from our subverse, as is our right. We have never claimed otherwise. Are you daft?

So there you have it folks see for yourself how this community thinks it's better than the down voat button. Think it can decide what you can and can't read. Feast your eyes on CENSORSHIP.

MUAHAHAHA

i had fun writing this time to play tf2 a bit and let some comments roll in. :)

ihaveabulldoge

Found the fatty.

COUSCOUS

You sir, are a loonie.

sadam029

Do I have proof? no. But its pretty darn obvious to anyone paying attention.

Wrecked

This was deleted by a mod not an admin. Know the difference and the rules for the subverse before you post. Mistake on your part.

12_Years_A_Toucan

They think that mods should not be allowed to do such things on voat actually.

Wrecked

And this isn't reddit style censor ship at all, people really need to think about what's going on, on both sides of things before they make an assumption.

Spectro

You have the ability to unsubscribe to any subverse you want and even the ability to make a better one yourself.

sadam029

Except we aren't shit mods, we just have very good persona management software. Without it we would have never gotten as popular as we did.

FTFY

sadam029

FPH was/is a ploy. It was meant to be censored on reddit to set the precedent of censoring legal but "offensive" ideas/discussion. Once the precedent is set, its easier to censor other dissenting opinions, and then others, and others. I'd bet that the people in fph on voat are the same ones from reddit.

BeerBaron

Well, to bring this around so it's still on topic with the sub- I'd be weary of squatters who were around before you guys migrated. Agent provocateurs & all that =P

BeerBaron

Yes we do.

That's what I meant when I said 'own it', but you kept trying to make excuses for this guy and distancing yourself from him, you're a TEAM. Stand together! You brigaded the thread well, just get your talking points better next time ;-) "This guy who modded this place before reddit booted us fucked this one up. He forgot the migrated community is used to dealing with non-community members differently and he can be a bigger dick than a lot of us sometimes" Y'all are going to be under a spotlight, you have to make your PR/damage controls easier for yourself.

So why would you guys stay there if this other dude doesn't appear to be in-line with the way you used to do thing? Seems to me since you're all newish here anyway, starting your own sub shouldn't be out of the question if this guy's bringing heat to your doorstep.

EDIT: brain-to-finger delays again

Mumberthrax

So I got mail indicating that this post had the appearance of being "brigaded". about 30 minutes old, only a few votes (2/2), but already 47 comments (this is definitely unusual) - most of them sounding a bit enraged at @mHtt . We don't have any rules about brigading on this subverse currently or any policy for handling it. This post does appear to have an unusual amount of FPH fans present - and that's fine! I want to encourage you all to please not attack someone just because you disagree with them. Refuting ideas is fine - and desired! Lots of pathos or vitriol is not really desired on our subverse.

@mHtt , the fatpeoplehate subverse is a quirky beast, and as far as I'm aware they have a policy about removing comments critical of their activities or culture. I think it's dumb as hell and harms our site, but it's just the way things are. I've had some bad encounters with some of them outside of their subverse, making pretty despicable personal attacks on me for being critical of them, but generally they have been keeping to their subverse. They have their safe space, and I guess that's a good thing.

I do think it's understandable that some of them would lash out at you for posting about it. Many people from that community/culture are kind of immature and very much driven by emotion and drama. So it is easy to see why they would follow you here to this post, or respond negatively to you on your /v/voat submission. I don't think it's right, but it's understandable.

I don't know how to resolve the issues relating to that community injecting itself into our overall Voat.co community. The best I can suggest is to just do your own thing outside of their subverse, let them do what they will in that space. I'm sorry that you've had a bad experience here on /v/conspiracy today, but hopefully it will be only a one-time thing.

12_Years_A_Toucan

The only FPH fans that came in have been 3 of us mods who found the post being made about us after @mHtt made the original post about their comment deletion on /v/voat . We commented to let the individual know that a rookie mod had deleted the comment and we corrected the mod. We DO NOT have a policy to delete comments, we do not remove comments that don't break site wide rules. We do ban dissent however, as we keep things and the community hate focused. I have created /v/fphdiscussion for discussion about FPH philosophy for anyone that wants actual discussion however that's not the purpose of the main sub and our community likes us swinging the ban hammer.

As you can see I have not voated on this submission , nor have I voated on any of OP's comments. I even upvoated their original post in /v/voat in order to aid in visibility and our transparency. That's why I originally commented on the post, to publicly let them know what happened. The individual became combative and then made this post, so I showed up to make sure people would see what actually happened and understand the situation. I admit I also returned the user's combative attitude with my own and have promised to you not to let it happen here again.

pikeymick

And then you spent time trolling https://voat.co/v/Conspiracy/comments/222730/679033

Mumberthrax

ahh, my mistake. I confused the bans with removals. I apologize. I appreciate you making this post - it does help clear things up. Thank you. : ]

mHtt

Hey thanks for writing the great reply. I appreciate your time and energy. I'm not upset, im entertained to say the least.

I think it's important to fight censorship in all it's forms and love having /v/conspiracy as a place to discuss these topics.

I just wish such an active topic could see more eyes so we could better grasp how the community as a whole feels.

seems kind of like more censorship when nobody can see a young debate this active ...

thanks again for your time. peace :)

Mumberthrax

You're right. I do think that a proper discussion about these issues should be had where more people can see them. It's unfortunate that this sort of downvoting to invisibility thing happens sometimes. Perhaps at some point we can do some sort of inter-subverse discussions, maybe an AMA or panel with mods from FPH to try and get a better handling on where everyone stands on these issues and what problems need attention.

mHtt

I am open and willing to participate in meaningful and constructive discussion.

I will give you my word to never troll in or with reference to /v/conspiracy

thanks for working with me on this. :)

BeerBaron

I just can't anymore. I don't know how the logic trains gets around in your world but you may want to give it a chance to stop & refuel every now & then.

"You have a mod who doesn't even know the rules for the community he's modding." You're welcome to reason yourself out of that however you want, it doesn't make it any less true.

BeerBaron

Not being assumptive, you said it with your own words.

You have a mod who doesn't even know the rules for the community he's modding. Own it, don't try to backpedal away from it. That simple explanation goes a long way.

BeerBaron

Gotcha. So you just have mods of your community without any idea how the community is run. I'll spare you the sarcastic quip and just say thanks for clearing it all up for me.

12_Years_A_Toucan

You write like a child

I will not say mean things,

I will not say mean things,

I will not say mean things.

Mumberthrax

Hey, would you be willing to refrain from personal attacks while on our subverse in the future?

12_Years_A_Toucan

Of course, my apologies.

Mumberthrax

Thanks. : ]

I know that the OP here didn't understand the quirks of the FPH policies, and he still deserves to be able to post his thoughts here and have those be critically reviewed rather than him directly being slammed.

12_Years_A_Toucan

Absolutely, I'll be mindful of that next time.

mHtt

from you, thats a compliment ya big infant

OMG hit me with ur kitana now LOL

want more? I can dance all day with newbs like u

12_Years_A_Toucan

This is painful to read, even from a trolling perspective you're super try hard.

mHtt

but you keep reading, because you love when i talk dirty to you...

12_Years_A_Toucan

It's true I really do. You suck me in each time with your sweet talk just to hurt my heart again

mHtt

no pain no gain

BeerBaron

I'm reading this thread, not the one linked, but thanks for responding. So how does one who is not a mod of a sub delete a comment? Or are are you just trying to say a new mod fucked up?

Canaduck

It's free for people to use, but then people like you abuse the powers given to fuel a petty idea. Voat was created for uncensored, unabridged, unadulterated content that is legal . You and your subverse have bastardized the idea of Voat, and showing how bad the problem really is by brigading us in two separate subverses from your own (because we can't post in yours).

12_Years_A_Toucan

abuse the powers

How by serving our community the way they want?

Voat was created for uncensored, unabridged, unadulterated content that is legal

It was created with the idea ADMINS would not interfere.

brigading us in two separate subverses from your own

There is no post in our sub about it how's that possible? Making two posts about FPH mods in a site as small as voat, and even mentioning our usernames in one, and you think we would never see either?

Canaduck

You have your interpretation (the wrong one in my opinion ) and I have mine. No one should be able to silence anyone for petty reasons.

mHtt

FYI this thread is being brigadierd by FPH newbs mad that I exposed their hypocrisy!

12_Years_A_Toucan

B-B-B-BRIGADE! MUH FREEZE PEACH!

scrubhero

The SJWs got FPH banned off reddit and here you are sprouting the same pro-censorship slogan they do. The irony is so strong.

12_Years_A_Toucan

I don't think you understand FPH at all.

Canaduck

Yes you are, get off Voat, make your own echo chamber circle jerk site, and censor and ban anyone that shows up.

HomerSimpson

No thanks. You can fuck off yourself though if you want.

12_Years_A_Toucan

No, we are free to create our community as we like on voat. You're free to fuck right off.

Canaduck

Yes you are, but you aren't free to go against the site's rules while you are still a part of it, i.e. a subverse

12_Years_A_Toucan

I don't think you understand how the site rules work.

Canaduck

I'll copy past from my post there

"Rules" are vague justifications for censorship now? Amazing. We'd all be better off moderators like those shown in this thread stopped with their own theocracies and ideas of how to run a subverse. You are still part of Voat, so abide by the SITE-WIDE GOAL , or you know make your own website and stop using other peoples hard work and ideas to fuel your own petty zealotry.

Censorship of any kind isn't allowed unless it is illegal content. If a subverse can ban people and delete comments for no good reason, then that subverse shouldn't have any upvoat/downvoat capabilities because its just a fucking garbage echo chamber circle jerk.

tl;dr : Subverses can have their own rules as long as they don't violate Voat's main goal.

12_Years_A_Toucan

You wanna back that up or just spout your nonsense opinion?

Canaduck

I don't have to anything for you and fedora collection.

12_Years_A_Toucan

So that's a no. Learn how this stuff works.

Canaduck

dons armor of the whitest metal You will NOT talk to a m'lady like that! You worthless piece of shit, I will fucking destroy you, I am the top brony in all of the brony fanclubs in America, with over 300 confirmed hentai drawings of flutter shy. I will blog about you so hard and will tip my fedora to hard [name]will become my waifu. You see jocky chads like you were always taking all the girls from us gentle sirs, in highschool because of your swag. But now the matured ladies have realized that class is timeless, while swag is only only. Do not make me use my katana, you fucking pleb.

After a post like that, how could anyone take you seriously? I bet you wear adult diapers.

pikeymick

Oh man that's pure gold!

12_Years_A_Toucan

REEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE

HomerSimpson

So what you are saying is a subverse is in no way allowed to ban trolls/spammers because it isn't apart of the site wide goal. Are you people seriously retarded or something?

Canaduck

Pointing out irony in a subverse should start a solid discussion. Not unquestioned censorship and banning. If pointing out irony qualifies as trolling/spamming, then why have a forum if you guys are just a glorified echo chamber?

Edit: Furthermore, it's not hard to troll someone, especially after you get banned for no reason. You seem to want to curtail the problem, but didn't your mother ever tell you: " Don't feed the trolls "

HomerSimpson

Because that is what the sub is about. We don't allow people who like fat people in a fat hating forum. Same with not allowing fat people. Why would we allow people who aren't for hating fat people to change the subverse's vision?

unquestioned censorship

No idea what you mean since you add banning as another line. We don't delete comments and the comment in question should never have been removed.

Canaduck

I hate fat people as much as the next, I used to be an olympic athlete in swimming. But the brigading and "rules" of your subverse are the reason why Voat was created as an alternative to reddit. FPH got banned from reddit, and now you guys seem to not have learnt any lesson at all, and are censoring your page as you see fit - take a step back and actually use the voting system. Maybe have a really strict policy in FPH where if you get 5 downvoats it gets removed. One person holding the power to end someones line of discourse is unacceptable.

12_Years_A_Toucan

But the brigading and "rules" of your subverse are the reason why Voat was created as an alternative to reddit

No, that's just incorrect. It has to do with reddit administration not one sub. Here subverses are still free to run their community as they want.

One person holding the power to end someones line of discourse is unacceptable.

Well then don't participate in our sub, win-win

Canaduck

Then stop following me to other threads, jackass.

12_Years_A_Toucan

I didn't follow you

HomerSimpson

What lesson? Being bullshit banned from reddit? We keep shitposts OFF of our sub no matter what. We don't care about your stupid votes. If you don't like it create your own fat people hate.

Bilko

Well, the FPH mods ARE censoring you, but the voat admins are not. You can see that there are deleted comments and each subverse has their rules, so stay away from those you don't agree with.

mHtt

Man this was a great comment except:

so stay away from those you don't agree with.

how are we supposed to question are own thought and ideas? how are we to empathize and feel with others different from us if we shield ourselves from controversy?

I say seek out all controversy and throw it into the brightest light for all to see!

Bilko

well, you may be right, comments shouldn't have a way to be deleted (unless if reported and verified as spam) and the mods should be dictated by the community... Like there could be some poll or voating system to change subverses mods. After all, we should be able to speak freely here. What do you think about suggesting it to the admins? (I WOULD upvoat, but I already reached my limit)

mHtt

by taging /u/atko and /u/puttitout like this? with /u/

ahahaha just realized your kinda new here. I'm pretty sure that's how we summon either of them Welcome to vaot, I URGE you to explore. it's been awesome until some of these shenanigans started happening.

it's just my first comment deleted in decades of using web forums and i think it's a little ironic the mods thought they could get away with it on voat. esp the FPH mods ahaha, It's kind of funny to me what people think they can get away with.... enjoy the site :)

12_Years_A_Toucan

the mods thought they could get away with it on voat.

Again no. A rookie did it, we've corrected them. You're trying way too hard.

Bilko

yeah, I am actually a former lurker (mostly on 4chan )... I first came to this site some weeks ago, but just got interested in creating an account. I'm a fan of privacy-minded services and projects... Also I didn't know about the /u/, I only saw some tags with @, is it the same?

BeerBaron

I guess they just doesn't want you to see from their point of view. If you don't get it, you just don't get it.

wmq

You must differentiate between subverse mod censorship and site admin censorship. If someone created subverse I think it's ok for him to set up some internal rules and enforce them. It's different from Reddit-style removal of something because it doesn't please site owners/CEO.

mHtt

then what's the point of the downvoat/upvoat mechanism if you just delete content based on a single users (mods) opinion?

if you disregard the voat mechanism: voat no longer functions as a social media news aggregate and free speech platform, but more of a censored-hate-infested-circlejerk webforum.

This is exactly why voat has mod logs so this bull shit doesn't happen. use the upvoat/ downvoat button likes its supposed to be used.

Read this :

No legal subject in this universe should be out of bounds. Our aim is to build a site that serves the needs and wants of our users; one that strives for quality over >quantity, and doesn't pander to the lowest common denominator in return for traffic.

and

Will you censor comments and submissions?

While we don't necessarily approve or agree with all content that users submit to Voat, our policy is to not meddle and not censor content unless said content is illegal in Switzerland.

here

If you don't like content you downvoat it you don't remove it. That's censorship, or make your subverse private.

tothetop

Fatpeoplehate is a hate-infested-circlejerk webforum. That is the point of it. That is why the community was created both on reddit and on here.

"Our aim is to build a site that serves the needs and wants of our users."

The need and want of the user that created fatpeoplehate is to shit on fat people. If you want to start a sub for open discussion on fat people, go right ahead.

"While we don't necessarily approve or agree with all content that users submit to Voat, our policy is to not meddle and not censor content unless said content is illegal in Switzerland."

Again, Voat's policy is to not censor. Not the mods of a sub. A sub can be set up however the creator wants it.

I'm going to assume you are some idiot from SRS or SRD trying to start shit to "enjoy some popcorn." You just come off as an idiot who can't tell the difference between the website itself censoring things and a subverse creating it's own set of rules that don't allow certain things.

mHtt

If you want to start a sub for open discussion on fat people, go right ahead.

I don't. I just like to point out when people are hypocrites. Which they clearly all are. the rest is all entertaining to me...

A sub can be set up however the creator wants it.

nah, deleting legal content is bullshit censorship, if you don't like something use the voat button THATS WHAT THERE FUCKING FOR.

You just come off as an idiot who can't tell the difference between the website itself censoring things and a subverse creating it's own set of rules that don't allow certain things.

Read what you wrote fool.

deletion of legal content is censorship and thats why we left reddit. Now kindly fuck off.

tothetop

It isn't hypocritical.

Voat says the company itself is anti-censorship and therefore it does not censor anything legal and allows users to do what they want.

The subverse does what it wants and creates it's own rules about what is considered on-topic. This subverse has a rule that only fat hate is on topic. So if you violate that, the sub can treat it how it wants.

Try thinking of it like the government and a private company. That's something you idiots love to preach about. It is the same thing.

Please fuck off back to SRS and SRD.

Canaduck

Your analogy is broken. You can't think of subverse as a private company, because Voat.co is still liable for anything that happens in a subverse.

Think of it more like the government and a branch of the government (Postal Service, etc). If a subverse is being shitty, then Voat.co gave them the tools to be shitty.

tothetop

What does the liability of Voat have to do with it? I am saying that just like the government cannot dictate what rules a private organization makes (as long as they are legal) neither can voat dictate (based on their own free speech stance) what rules a subverse makes as long as they are legal.

Canaduck

Define censorship:

The suppression or proscription of speech or writing that is deemed obscene, indecent, or unduly controversial.

By this definition, moderators aren't even censoring - they are directly dictating discourse by disallowing individuals to present their own points.

Take the US for example

When a U.S. government agency attempts to prohibit speech or writing, the party being censored frequently raises these First Amendment rights. [Freedom of Press, Freedom of Speech].

If when I post I get silenced, my rights are being violated - by extension if I can't even post at all then I have no Freedom of Speech. A corporation would be shut down and disbanded in America for pulling analogous shenanigans to FPH in the real world - why tolerate it here? I'm not asking for them to be removed, just give moderators more adept tools to actually moderate a topic or subverse, rather than dictating the entire outcome from the get go. (The way FPH runs thing is comparable to fundamentalist theocratic zealots).

Maybe rights don't apply the same way on the internet, and if that is the case then there should be a global internet charter of rights to uncensored, unabridged, unadulterated, legal content ( oh wait thats the goal of Voat ).

tothetop

If when I post I get silenced, my rights are being violated - by extension if I can't even post at all then I have no Freedom of Speech.

You are equating the government protections with the subverse instead of voat.

A corporation would be shut down and disbanded in America for pulling analogous shenanigans to FPH in the real world - why tolerate it here?

For what? And it doesn't only apply to corporations. It applies to any private space that someone owns. Either way, what could the corporation hypothetically be shut down for?

I'm not asking for them to be removed, just give moderators more adept tools to actually moderate a topic or subverse, rather than dictating the entire outcome from the get go.

The point of Voat being free speech is that the users can create spaces however they want within the law. How is that so hard to understand?

(oh wait thats the goal of Voat).

Exactly. Voat's goal. Not any specific subverse.

Canaduck

What you don't seem to understand, that although subverses are not managed by Voat, they are a part of voat . Get that through your thick skull.

By your logic, Voat could have all the promises to be free speech in the world, yet every subverse could be an echo chamber with no real discussion. What the hell is the point of a forum layout if you can't even put in two cents. Subverses like FPH that broadcast themselves as such should have a very different forum layout, more conducive to jerking each other off, and dissuading innocent people from trying to start a real discussion.

tothetop

You still don't get the distinction and clearly can't comprehend how something has different levels.

You are absolutely right, every subverse could be like that. But the whole point of Voat is that if you want a subreddit with certain rules, you can fucking make it. So if every subverse is like that, create your own fucking version of it that has the rules you want in it. That is the fucking point. FPH does have a different forum layout which is outlined in their rules that is conducive to exactly what you said. So if you don't like the rules in that subverse, quit bitching and make your own. They have the right to run their small portion of Voat how they want, just like you have the right to run any subverse you create how you want. You dense fucking piece of shit.

Canaduck

Why all the derision? You can't seem to hold a cohesive idea in your head about where you stand on the position. Just because I don't agree with you, doesn't mean I'm a dense fucking piece of shit, it means I actually have a spine and you find that threatening - resorting to name calling because your infantile brain can't actually believe someone doesn't hold the same viewpoint as you. Gosh! Maybe give me a downvoat? What's the point of existing on a free speech platform if aren't willing to support free speech?

tothetop

The derision was in response to yours. I have a cohesive idea in my head of where I stand on the position, and it makes sense actually. You are being willfully ignorant by refusing to acknowledge the differences between two distinct entities and the rules that govern them. Voat is a free speech platform that allows users to create subverses that cater to their needs and desires. That is free speech. The subverses do not have to adhere to that individually since anyone that doesn't like the rules of a sub has the freedom to create their own in any way that they like. I fully understand that a subverse is a part of voat, but each one has its own rules. Voat's own FAQ: "Each subverse has its own rules which are stated in respective subverse sidebars. If you ignore said rules, your account may be banned from submitting further content to the subverse or in some cases, globally." If you honestly can't see the difference between Voat as a platform and a subverse as an individually created community, there is no point in even talking to you anymore.

I don't find you threatening, and arguing with someone online doesn't mean you have a spine. Hope you enjoy the feeling of your own hand on your back.

Canaduck

I don't have hands, asshole.

mHtt

deleting legal content is censorship

use the voat buttons, thats what they're for.

HomerSimpson

We already commented on this. Your comment being deleted was a mistake. Do you seriously not know how to read?

Also you cite something the voat admins said which is not a site wide rule.

mHtt

We already commented on this. Your comment being deleted was a mistake.

If this is true then I expect an apology, not some attempt at a slight from an insipid troglodyte such as yourself. no thesaurus bitch

HomerSimpson

No. You want to attack us because you don't know how to read. Not our fault you are retarded.

You didn't pass go. You don't collect $200 and you can go fuck yourself. How does that sound for an apology?

mHtt

?

I can't read

HomerSimpson

No shit.

mHtt

just relax

HomerSimpson

no u

mHtt

before then

BeerBaron

The irony is dripping @fuckredditcensorship deleting comments they don't like, HAHAHAHA! They get banned from reddit and cry censorship, then don't even entertain "dissenting opinions". Damn those mods really are shit-stains. "We're here to help people, but we don't want to hear anything from people who don't agree!" That's just sad. Maybe they did deserve to get shafted off reddit- mods seem like a serious bunch of assholes.

Thanks for posting this. I needed a good laugh. Sorry they shit on ya, I hope somewhere inside you're able to get over it.

EDIT: my fingers did things my brain didn't approve of