DId you get the impression I'm advocating for something here? I'm offering my opinion. So, as I said in the first 2-4 sentences:

This is 100% theory, and there is zero chance of anyone ever proving evidence supporting this thought. If that bothers you, please move on, I'm not here to convince you of anything. I'm here to talk theory, not advance that theory to fact.

The cognitive dissonance around here hurts sometimes.

In another sub, there was a comment about the TPP, and someone was commenting on how the Confederate flag and gay rights ruling could be a political diversion for some behind-the-scenes conspiracy. So anyways, I've been trying all day to post a reply, and it keeps rejecting me with one of those "you're doing it too fast, wait 30 seconds" messages. Weird.

I doubt reddit controls the flow of opinion to that level.

I agree with that, but I believe reddit was a tool. I really don't think the admins were on board with this dystopian BS

Mostly, I'm concerned about state sponsored media trolls that game sites like reddit and voat.

That much I agree on. It's pretty clear that forum puppets have been going to great lengths to discredit anyone who would criticize israel or the US. If you want to make people more aware of zionist agendas, denying the holocaust is a pretty damn stupid place to start. Though I will say, I'm not sure russia actually give a shit about us as long as we aren't stopping them from slowly absorbing europe. I don't think they need a covert media campaign to make them seem like a secondary problem.

Ill say this - the past week has been one of the most insane weeks in financial and economic news in the last century. If there are government employees on these sites trying to shape public opinion, they were on standby/duty this weekend. The last thing they want is people talking about the Chinese collapse/capital controls, Grexit, IMF attempting to overstep their legal authority, the entire fucking NYSE being taken down for a day (along with several major news agencies).

All it takes is one actor getting too excited and speaking too strongly in the moment (see the resignation of the Greek Finance Minister, Yanis Varoufakis).

I've noticed this too. Excellent post. The discussions and posts here have seemed very low quality.

IP addresses matter even less than accounts do. The best way would be just as is being done, limit ways to game the up/down voting system. Watch behavior and not actual posts. Bots are very likely already as we speak gaming the system and setting up accounts that seem legitimate and have voting powers. However, I expect that moderators have the ability to see who up/downvoted which post and will be able to determine from that a pretty good idea of who's gaming the system and who isn't. At least I think that's the case. I have no idea how moderation works on this site yet.

1, Outside of this sub, would you say that low-grade conspiracy chatter has increased?

Yes. This trend has been increasing since the 90s (X-Files, Coast to Coast AM , and Conspiracy Theory fandom), but the current trend on 4chan, ATS, and GLP has been to emphasize "community" over content.

2, Do you feel that theories without direct evidence (like this one ironically enough) are harmful to our credibility?

No. Not immediately. This is the difference between philosophy and history. Both are prone to manipulation, so both deserve discussion. Besides, what constitutes evidence is a pretty slippery slope. The difficulty is that the presentation of evidence (or even argument) is detailed and slow. Posting a video is quick. The quicker response is more easily subject to techniques of forum manipulation.

I think one way to counter this would perhaps be a curated wiki -- and any "Hay guise, didja noe that jet fuels can't milt steal biemz" would get struck, but a discussion of the available heat energy of a full fuel tank would be allowed. That might seriously alter how this subverse works, though.

3, If you feel this is the case, what should be done to preserve our reputation?

I dun tole yew, I guess. I'm not sure you have a reputation now. Reputations are rough in the conspiracy world. Half the people are paranoiacs (not without cause), a quarter are abusive (and probably shills), and a quarter are straight-up delusional. You might consider why and how reputations have changed, what the long-standing feuds among conspiracy theorists are, and who has good reputations.

Well, keep fighting the good fight!

I have extended family that made their living farming, but I never really appreciated the idea until after I finished my degree. Turns out my old-school grandparents were pretty with-it. It's awesome that you followed through to the point of actually getting out of dense population. I hope to do the same someday, but as I'm sure you know, it's a whole different story when you've got people to convince :/

I gotta say, I think 90% of my paranoia is related directly to population density. I am one happy camper when I'm outdoors, a few hours away from all the noise. Just makes me think more and more that the mainstream news are pretty much the only real terrorists we have to worry about these days.

Thanks for the kind words, it's nice to meet intelligent people, even if it takes a silly argument to get us to talk :)

That would solve absolutely nothing. Once the threshold was worked out, then bots would continue the same way right up until they reach the threshold, then start anew with a fresh account.

Of course the shills, trolls and fakes from Reddit are going to come infiltrate this place. What, did you think they'd just ignore it?

I think this post is the hollow crap you're complaining about. Also, it's the internet; anyone can post anything anywhere. Next.

I'd say you're on the ball, OP. I've had a few very shillish responses and such, and Reddit has DEFINITELY been more tolerant to posting controversial shit.

That said, I imagine Reddit will continue to tank, since it's still modded by corrupt-ass individuals who aren't going to magically start acting the opposite of how they have been for years. But hey, thanks for letting controversial shit get posted and helping educate the masses there, Reddit. Now go fade into obscurity and die.

This is where we really disagree. It's not that you shouldn't work to educate people or try and teach people it's just that you can't prevent what has to happen. Many people are going to have to die when the support structure they have been crutching on falls away from them. There is just no way around that. Never has been. Research human genetic bottlenecks. Our species has almost totally snuffed it a couple of times now.

I see your argument, and I can't dispute it. I've looked into genetic bottlenecks before, and while scary, I cant deny the theory seems airtight. I remember in the movie "wargames" from the 80's had a similar argument coming from the scientist towards the end. The only reason I mention that, is because I was certainly on your side of thinking in a vacuum, but having a family kind of changed that for me. I suppose one might blame human biology for that, and they probably wouldn't be wrong (hormonal changes and all).

I suppose it really comes down to the pessimist/optimist spectrum. I must say, it's a rare thing to meet someone that makes me look like the starry-eyed optimist in a conversation like this, and I mean that as a complement. You've honestly forced me to evaluate my morals vs my logic, which is a very rare thing for me. I can't say that I won't keep trying to avert metaphorical (and literal) Armageddon, but you've helped me identify why I do so in the first place, and I thank you for that.

As for gardening, It's one of my guilty pleasures. I'll be the first to admit I'm no master, but there is something amazing about the ability to facilitate life, even if you didn't create it. Most of all, I just like being able to eat ;) Are there any good farming/gardening subs on voat at the moment? Reddit had a few, but they were 95% questions and jokes.

I'd like to apologize for calling you heartless and brainless. I still don't think we quite see eye to eye with how we define certain words (like brainwashed), but I misjudged your intentions in saying what you initially commented. However advocating apathy (even unintentionally) is dangerous.

When you said:

It's more like they are the audience in the magic show who is amazed by the trick and they applaud. You on the other hand don't believe in magic and thus are looking for how the trick was accomplished. The people in the audience aren't brainwashed. They are simply entertained and satisfied.

I think you hit the nail on the head with this. You lost me again with:

We have plenty of free time to be entertained. We are mostly assured of our roofs and suppers.

On this, could not disagree more. Never in history has there been such a high quality of life, but at such great expense to the average person. One might argue this is a symptom of bureaucracy, others would argue it's a problem of leaders not doing their jobs well, and I think both those lines of thinking have merit. However, no mater the cause, the functional effect is present. I would simply like to be part of the first generation I've ever personally seen actually care (about these things).

I rather enjoyed you anecdote about the camping trip gone wrong. People certainly gain back perspective quickly when faced with adversity. This question is mostly rhetorical, but here's my main driving point: What if no one in your group knew how to survive? Well, in this example, you might have died. Without a baseline level of survival training, some people will no be able to revert away from their habits, and the will (metaphorically, and maybe literally) die. If I can help to prevent such an eventuality, shouldn't I work to do so? Or (in line with the metaphor) what if we taught everyone how to fish/forage (think critically) as young adults so there is no risk of death (brainwashing/disinfo) when they actually have to survive in the woods(world) without food (truth).

Alright, fair enough. I'm concerned with he fact that the main source of info for people under 25 is news forums. I'm concerned with the fact that very few of these outlets are as transparent as voat is.

I'd simply like to live in a world where I don't have to worry about my friends and co-workers being brainwashed. If they are quietly, harmlessly brainwashed, they still vote in elections that directly effect everyone in my country.

Perhaps even v/wildconspiracy for posts that lack sourcing.

Now THAT is an idea I can get behind. I'll make it right now, though I might go with the name "ConspiracyGoneWild."

Edit: Alright, it's done. ConspiracyGoneWild exists. Now we(I) can fill it up with cross-posts :)

The number of shit tier posts has increased in line with the increase in users,
Some is shilling, some is the normal crazies that gravitate towards these types of places.

Who cares about credibility in an anonymous internet forum?

Finally, use the word hypothesis as theory does not mean "idea with no evidence".

Those are the questions i was looking for, and they just were not there. At this point I knew they are all getting shadow-deleted. Just can't trust reddit when there's no transparency any more. You don't know what is being deleted or what is being allowed or what is being gamed to make it look like people are upvoting it.

The vidoes in this sub are certainly hit and miss, but we really shouldn't censor them. Down voting works especially well because the ratios are visible here.

I think we should become "purists" around v/conspiracy, and demolish (using votes, not personal attacks) anyone who routinely links to places that don't think sources are necessary for valid claims.

Another concept that is new, is the idea that you loose voting rights as you "spend" your CCP. On reddit, comment points are simply a reflection of public opinion. Here, a low score means you cant upvote much, or downvote at all. At the very least, it will be interesting to observe how well this system works, and for how long. Still, my hopes are high for this place.

Downvote limiting is a great preventative strategy against new digital immigrants, but what happens when enough accounts can downvote another into having no "anti-votes?" This strikes me as a long term vulnerability within voat, and people will probably be right back to searching for a new platform if it is ever exploited fully.

Perhaps the strategy is to delay this theoretical "hostile takeover of opinion" as long as possible?

Maybe the creators realize the inherent flaws in semi-anonymous forums, and think the only way to beat this issue is to decentralize and move to the point where the thinkers outpace the censorship/disinfo?

They're certainly trying. Yesterday I went to reddit to read comments about the new CEO and how he is not going to reverse changes done while Pao was there. I was semi-hoping there would be some dissent, but it seems reddit is truly censored.

The commenting section was gamed to upvote certain comments saying how everything is fine (go back to bed America). Then I did a search on mentions of Voat and its most certainly getting gamed by reddit to make Voat look like bunch of extremists or idiots.

They are certainly here as well, we just have to be vigilant as a community and call out any obvious shills.

Reddit is dead to me, so while I agree, I feel that anything reddit related is an ancillary point. I do see the value in comparing the behavior of the aggregate voat and reddit user. I think analyzing those differences is a key to understanding how to recognize puppets and bots.

You cant solve for a variable unless you have two equations of different origin to work with!

It's on "purpose" partly but with little impact, however that is to be tested as each account reaches 100ccp, be aware:

• I just learned there are still limits on up votes in a ratio pattern
• VC money will probably try to "ring fence" I.e keep things how they are or chip away at those limits
• it will be sad and unfortunate if there is no cost in ccp to down vote, as this is the perfect simple automatic tool especially considering now we know about the up vote limit.
• Voat can be decentralized it would not require every user to load software just incentives for some, these incentives can be quite small history has shown.

There is a war on the internet. Voat is just one small brick in a huge wall.

I suppose a rule that says anyone with a certain percentage of downvoats and a certain number of absolute downvoats has their ip address banned might be useful.

I've had the same thought myself, but I've hit a wall with this topic. Wasn't it reddit's original plan to use banning against ad-bots? How long did it take before that back fired on the users? It simply seems like absolute freedom opens doors for shills trolls and bots, where as censorship has its own obvious drawbacks.

Is there a middle ground, or is that wishful thinking?

Perhaps a true karma system would work. Say you can't upvoat more than a certain ratio of your downvoats, and vice versa. (but this opens the door for submittion-end attacks that leave the user short of "anti-votes.")

Or, maybe if they put a hard limit on the up and downvoats, per hour that an active account exists. (but I suppose that would favor bot accounts)

I'm really just thinking out loud here, but I feel like we need to address this before we all end up in between uncensored communication outlets again.

Who cares about reputation? Fuck what people think.