totes_magotes

This is fucking brilliant though. Anything the Russians are against MUST be something liberals want.

BoraxTheFungarian

I find it interesting that Russia fights disease with bacteriophages... Have been since... the 80's?

OtisT

It seems like a very inefficient method.

CowWithBeef

If you try to weigh the pros and cons of each vaccine individually, you realize the most important questions for the calculation are completely ingnored by your pediatrician. They're not concerned with the health of your child when they vaccinate him.

MMR has pretty high risks of autoimmune overreaction because they are injecting a live virus. The 3 diseases are also rare and generally survivable. Rubella can fuck up a pregnant woman's fetus though so maybe a shot of that before trying for kids is a good idea.

a11en

I like how they’re starting to mix many vaccines together and approve them through a fast-approval FDA process. It smacks of the medical device approval process- since it’s similar, surely the mix is fine. (Not talking MMR here but the newer mixed vaccines.)

CowWithBeef

Pediarix is the mix I refused. It has the legal limit of Aluminum and was created before the limit was. They would have set the limit lower if pediarix didn't exist. Then the pediatrician will give you another vaccine the same day.

a11en

Thanks for the interesting info! My understanding is that this is an older mix- there are even newer mixes that have been approved on a fast-track schedule.

ReadPastHeadlines

not doing the full schedule of vaccines on your pediatric visit? sign this form stating you are negligent.

77777777777

Have you EVER heard of anyone catching rubella?

Vaccines are satanic witch craft "hair of the dog". They are full of poisonous chemics and viruses that you DONT WANT. why are you injecting yourself with it?

Do not try to plat the vaxxers game..vaccination doesnt equal immunization. Just because you inject yourself with their poisom uou can still get the disease!

Again.. Have you EVER heard of anyone having rubella? Not me...

Voat_a_Goat_Mamma

I had it. It was a week with a fever...that's it. I had the measles. I had chicken pox. I had roseola. I had all of that shit except small pox and polio.

JohnGoodman

it’s extremely rare now,because people are vaccinated against it, you fucking retard

CowWithBeef

I gave my kid a single dose of both meningitis vaccines, pc, hib, and wanted to do whooping cough but my pediatrician refused to use my preferred, lower Aluminum, brand. They don't care about my child's health to order a vaccine.

a11en

I do wish someone would do an intramuscular metals (Al being the most prevalent) study!! Doses are higher than IV rules, but lower than that for food compliance. It would sure be nice to know the level safe for muscle tissue or normal injections. I can’t find a single study on it.

CowWithBeef

Digestive system absorbs about 1% of injested aluminum. And slowly. Inject Al directly to the blood stream and blood Al levels spike much higher.

a11en

Well of course our digestive system is pretty decent at keeping us safe from these things. The real question is how does the body deal with it injected into muscle tissue at high doses.

Old-Misogynist

Don't need vaccines for measles, mumps or chickenpox. My generation all cought those diseases and we survived.

VaccinesArePoison

You dont need vaccines for ANYTHING. Its satanic poison! If the ingredients for vaccines were put into a spoon and they told you what was in it and they told you to give it to your child you would punch the jew doctor square in the face.

RageAgainstTheAmish

Did you catch each one of those and survive or you just saying something to project like that

Voat_a_Goat_Mamma

I certainly did. You can test my titlers to prove it.

madmalloy

I caught them all. As I said that was normal back then. Yeah, I'm older than you, obviously.

Old-Misogynist

Yeah, I had all of those in the 50's. No vaccine for those. I avoided polio.

77777777777

Polio is gone because of proper sanitation, NOT THE VACCINE. Polio is transmitted through fecal matter. Polio is usually asymptomatic! Only rarely do people have long term problems, and iron lungs are a jew hoax.

Again, polio doesnt need a vaccine. Humans needed proper sanitation and to wash their hands after taking a dump.

EDUCATE YOURSELF BEFORE POISONING YOUR CHILDREN BECAUSE THE GOVERNMENT SAYS ITS GOOD!

Monteblanc

We used to have big families. When one cousin came down with a childhood virus our mothers would make us all have a sleepover. The reasoning is that most of these diseases are better dealt with by the body if caught when young.

madmalloy

I agree and had all of the (used to be normal) childhood illnesses.

GoatyMcGoatface

Why are vaccinations in general beyond reproach? Why is someone automatically "a dangerous idiot" for being suspect of them?

Dougal_McHaggis

How many people do you know who have had vaccines? Everyone. How many do you know that died or whatever from a vaccine? None.

How many people do you know that died from being fucking fat? A bunch.

OK so if you already have a fucked up immune system yes vaccines can possibly make it worse, if you get a bunch of them together. If you grew up eating healthy and being outdoors a lot you should be fine.

BoraxTheFungarian

A better question would be, why is there a special court for vaccine lawsuits? And why are those cases sealed?

VaccinesArePoison

Cant talk about holohoax. Cant talk about vaccines being poison... wonder who's behind it all.

Jews call us goy, cattle, vaxxers push HERD imunity. Nothing to see here, goy. Go watch TV.

Tb0n3

They're not beyond reproach, but the antivaxxers have NOTHING but their idiocy has caused deaths.

77777777777

You know DEATH is a side effect of vaccines, right? Vaccine deaths and injuries happen all the time, they are swept under the rug.

Did you know measles isnt dangerous? Everyone used to get them.

Tb0n3

One or two per thousand dying from measles and 1 per thousand having a chance of brain damage is a lot higher chance than the possible 1 per million unproven vaccine injuries caused. Are you one of the brain damaged ones?

VaccinesArePoison

Measles are not deadly, everyone used to get them. They fudge the numbers to always favor vaccines. Nobody dies from measles in developed countries where we dont drink from where we shit.

Vaccines injuries and deaths are suppressed and the numbers lower than truth. Autism and many immune disorders are caused by vaccines but they will never admit fault. All you have to do it open your eyes and look around you.

Tb0n3

Vaccines do not cause autism, retard.

VaccinesArePoison

You can say it all you want, but all you have to do is have eyes to see and look around you and not be a braindead sheeple to figure it out. God bless you in Jesus Christ.

Tb0n3

The only research making a positive link between vaccines and autism was Wakefield's paper which got his license revoked due to it being bought and paid for with multiple issues. No other paper has found a link. The only reason cases of autism have increased is because they changed the criteria to include more broadly defined attributes. No actual change but the definition.

VaccinesArePoison

Go ahead and beleive the lies.

ReadPastHeadlines

only antivaxxers die from vaccines though.

name one person who has died from a vaccine then continued to get them; they always make the switch to the antivax side

77777777777

To pro vaxxers: litterally every child who is not vaccinated against every possible disease,is going to get sick and die young. Also, vaccines are 100% safe and have never killed or injured children!

ReadPastHeadlines

and some of them don't have children of their own and haven't read a 2-page sheet of risks for the shot they want to inject into their newborn son.

between vaccines, circumcisions, propylene glycol and other chemicals in children's medicine...there is a direct attack on kids. best case is that the entire medical industry is corrupt to the core for money and making back alley deals at the cost of our health. that's just the best case.

77777777777

The truth is... satan owns the world right now. And thats the truth.

Heres one i like to throw out there... you know how often you hear about recalled spinnach or recalled lettuce or recalled peanut butter?

When do you ever hear about reccalled vaccines?! Never! And not because vaccines have 100% manufacture rate, they simply hide all of their mistakes because they need to keep perpetuating the lie that vaccines are totally safe! Inject your kids with all.the vaccines, goy! Its good for them! No way God knew what He was doing when He created the immune system! Our doctors with lab coats and peices of paper from our universities know best!

BoraxTheFungarian

I worked in a pharmacy during the swine flu scare of 2009... I listened to the radio a lot and the propaganda was ridiculous. What startles me most is the idiotic pharmacists and doctors who perpetuate this narrative. Irresponisble retards just trying not to rock the boat so their paychecks keep coming in... Somehow, nobody was raising the red flags when half the female population was on pig hormones for thyroid deficiency or the artificial hormone, synthroid. I think there are some decent pharmaceuticals out there, but they are far outweighed by the number of and efficacy of natural compounds. Just off the top of my head, myrrh and agarikon mushrooms kill viruses. The mushroom route is particularly interesting because they literally utilize waste material to produce miraculous substances.

13628745?

(Abridged conversation)

Nurse: "why no?"

Me: "Adjuvants mainly... I particularly don't like that DTP doesn't come seperatly.. Studies I've read say babies should not be treated as small adults, more studies needed and studying babies is unethical..."

Nurse: "You should watch YouTube videos of babies with whooping cough."

Me: "I've seen those. It's not always that bad. There is still a chance of getting it if vaccinated."

Nurse: "[passive aggressive comment about herd immunity]"

Voat_a_Goat_Mamma

I had a doctor with the allergy testing in my daughter's chart that said she was allergic to eggs PUSH the flu vaccine saying I was being paranoid. When I told him about the allergy testing he said, "And you really trust the testing."

UM yes! Duh... I don't trust doctors anymore.

a11en

I asked our pediatrician what he would suggest to keep our child clearly allergic to eggs safe with the flu vaccine- “is it safe to administer this vaccine to him even though his IG assays are so high for eggs?”... he said: “I’ll be right back...”. He poled the whole pedes department and then came back and said that we’d skip the flu vaccine this time. Rofl

That was before the APA came out with their statement that it was safe for allergic individuals. I found that bit of politics quite interesting. Especially since the whole pedes dept didn’t agree with them at the time.

Men13

Studies I've read say babies should not be treated as small adults

That's why there are studies looking specifically at the effects on babies

more studies needed

There are a shit load of studies. Just because you don't like how the studies disagree with you doesn't mean there aren't enough studies

and studying babies is unethical...

Not true. There are a ton of studies on babies. There are enough vaccinated and unvaccinated children that you don't have to give the babies anything to do the studies - just use the existing samples.

There is still a chance of getting it if vaccinated.

And that's exactly the reason why you need everyone to be vaccinated.

If vaccines prevented the illness 100% of the time, you wouldn't care if someone else vaccinated or not - you'd vaccinate your own kids and be secure. But because vaccines are only like 90% effective it so, the only way they work is if virtually everyone takes them.

13630823?

Sources for baby studies? I'm happy to look at new information on the subject. Just commenting on what I've found reading the studies my doctor's literature pointed me to and what I've found through my library and online (usually accessed through scihub).

The only studies I "don't like" are ones on adults (because I've seen too many that said babies are not the same as adults) and those where the placebo is adjuvants as the viruses alone don't worry me that much...

However I haven't looked into the DNA aspect (from the monkies/aborted fetuses mixing with vaccinated subject) or the effects of using the same old cultures for vaccines for so long - I've only seen mention of these in passing.

77777777777

Why do you even beleive their studies? Theyre just going to fudge the numbers to say whatever they want.

chuckletrousers

Theyre just going to fudge the numbers to say whatever they want.

Projecting again, little tranny?

Men13

That's a completely different argument.

That's about whether you trust your government to not put poison in babies. If you believe that there government would do that then you should not take anything from the government.

BoraxTheFungarian

Gift means poison in german.

You're retarded if you implicitly trust the government. Fluoride in baby water... 5g rollout is being orchestrated as we speak. Wholesale redistribution of aborted fetus parts for medical research?!

No choice, the dick of big government is taken up the rear whether you want it or not.

You worship at the altar of Big Brother. Must be some paycheck...

Men13

It wasn't a reproach. If you think your government would intentionally force poison onto babies for the benefit of corporations, then ok. Then you shouldn't take anything from the government.

But it's a different argument than the one I replied to.

77777777777

Theyre mad you dont want to be cattle! Reeeeeee

a11en

I think this is my biggest problem here- there’s no room to have discussions of the effects of vaccines at all. All discussions are just shut down. That’s not the scientific method of inquiry. Certainly if the science is sound there’s no problem discussing it?

Dortex

It's kind of like Creationists and evolution: Sure, you could sit here and explain to them some of the most well founded theories in science. But why? They've convinced themselves there's some huge conspiracy to hide "the truth" from people. "Discussion" isn't so much an exchange of ideas to them as it is a chance to proselytize. Meanwhile, the anti-vax has an extra element to it where if you get enough morons to ignore sound medical practices, the only people to suffer are children, the Ill, and the elderly, since they tend to be part of the population that benefits most from Herd Immunity.

Voat_a_Goat_Mamma

Many anti-vax parents were pro vaccines. I was pro vaccines until I had a child have a serious reaction. What made me vehemently anti-vaccine though was doctors that refused to acknowledge their own scientific data that said she was allergic to the vaccines and push them anyway under threat of CPS.

Dortex

You managed to stay on a topic for more than two sentences, unlike the others. Tell me more about this incident of yours.

Voat_a_Goat_Mamma

My daughter was fully vaccinated until she had a reaction tot he flu vaccine. She was 7 or 8 months old. At first, we didn't know what it was that caused an allergic reaction which included a sudden lack of interest in walking or moving her feet until she got her second flu vaccine and suddenly became paralyzed from the waist down completely. We, of course, went to the emergency room department and got a lot of accusatory looks. Several tests later, including drug tests, x-rays, cat scans, and more and they turned up nothing.

We then went to Shriner's where they found that she had Transverse Myelitis. In the course of all the testing, it was noted she was severely allergic to eggs and that was the most likely cause of her having a "flare up". The only eggs she had at that time was in the flu shot...she is also allergic to yeast, chickens, and cats.

In the course of conversations with multiple doctors, I have found they either deny that it is possible even with the data staring at them, tell me it is policy to require vaccinations science be damned, or doubt what I am saying even when the record reflects it.

Dortex

So one of your children is fine taking all the vaccinations until an undiagnosed egg allergy possibly triggers a paralytic episode. If nothing else, it stands out as a reasonable exacerbator of some separate issue associated with said episode. Your solution to this problem is to deny all of your children vaccinations until you can perform hundreds, possibly thousands of allergy tests.

I'm sensing an unhelpful level of neuroticism.

Voat_a_Goat_Mamma

First, I had several children before her that were fine with vaccinations. However, they had a different father, which makes me believe that is why they were fine.

Second, I don't deny this one child may be an oddball and had issues to begin with which the allergy made worse and that her full siblings may be fine. However, when it comes to risking a child being permanently disabled or the flu, I will take the flu. You have to see it's an odds thing. Her full brothers have a higher risk of having the same reaction or possible underlying condition. The flu on the other hand, for them, is highly unlikely to be permanently damaging.

The additional vaccines, I did not give to them as a precautionary measure. It may be a tad too far, but given I have one disabled child to care for...I can not see myself caring for a second and third effectively. Realistically, it is really a lot to ask of one person to risk her two healthy and normal children and then when they too get ill no one is there to help with the diaper changes, the wheelchair, the carrying 120 pounds around. How would I carry 3 children at 120 to 150 pounds? It would be an impossible task.

So it isn't neuroticism, it's being practical. My government does not give home health care for children often. My daughter has been this way for 15 years. For the first 8, they gave no care at all. Shriner's did, but not the government. Our local physicians outright refused to do anything. The local physical therapists called her a waste of time. They are very callous and unforgiving here socially if you have a disabled child. She was denied entry into school because she wore diapers. She has been excluded even from church and many other social opportunities. This is a child with a perfectly fine functioning brain, but a body that is unable to function like other 15-year-olds.

If society were helpful. If I knew I would not have to carry three adult-sized children through this, I might risk it, one at a time, slowly. Given the climate and the lack of care, compassion, or assistance, forget it. If society wants herd immunity, it needs to pay for that and not let it all on the shoulders of the parents that end up with disabled children for their herd immunity.

Dortex

First, I had several children before her (her half-siblings) that were fine with vaccinations and fully vaccinated. However, they had a different father, which makes me believe that is why they were fine.

In all of my studies, I haven't seen anything to suggest the heritability of allergies. That said, if there were some combination of your genes, and his, and just random mutation, that caused them, the others should have similar allergies. Probably not as bad, but if you absolutely need to get scratch tests to rule out the father, I'd start with what you know is bad.

Second, I don't deny this one child may be an oddball and had issues to begin with which the allergy made worse and that her full siblings may be fine.

So my intuition was on the money then? I mean, obviously I won't ask you to give us the baby's full medical history, but it seemed odd to me that we went from allergy straight to spinal cord inflammation. Usually it's "just" anaphylaxis if the allergy is bad enough.

, when it comes to risking a child being permanently disabled or the flu, I will take the flu. You have to see..

Look, I get it. The family you choose and make is one of the most, if not the most important thing in the world. I'm sure if my baby ended up paralyzed from some obscure set of issues interacting with a vaccine, I'd go ahead and panic too. Which is really something, given what I'm like. Regardless of the facts, the fear that it could happen to the others even hypothetically is very real and it wouldn't be a small burden if the worst came to pass.

So it isn't neuroticism, it's being practical.

I mean, it still is. That's not a criticism. It's an observation. Being freaked out about paralyzed children is a damn sight preferable to going ahead and vaccinating the rest indiscriminately. This also sounds like it happened a while ago. The internet wasn't as common as it is now and people didn't have the luxury and habit of just looking everything up. But I can tell you, in hindsight, unfortunately, that the others are incredibly unlikely to suffer any reaction at all save for some swelling. The only other vaccine I can think of that might cause an issue is the MMR vaccine, since that has egg too IIRC.

Voat_a_Goat_Mamma

It did happen some years ago. My sons are 12 and 9. Their partially paralyzed sister is 15.

I was trying to get a list of vaccines that had egg in it from the doctor and well, all communications broke down. It kind of disappointed me because I was trying to find a compromise I could live with.

neu·rot·ic n(y)o͝oˈrädik/Submit adjectiveMEDICINE 1. suffering from, caused by, or relating to neurosis. synonyms: mentally ill, mentally disturbed, unstable, unbalanced, maladjusted; More

I disagree that I am mentally ill for being cautious.

Dortex

I was trying to get a list of vaccines that had egg in it from the doctor and well, all communications broke down. It kind of disappointed me because I was trying to find a compromise I could live with.

I could help with that, if you want. Just need a bit of Google-fu and some patience to comb through some papers. Either way, I really hope you've already done, or are at least considering testing for egg allergies at some point. Seems you got lucky with your girl with just a reaction to the shot. Can't imagine how well it would have gone if you found out after making her eggs and toast for breakfast.

I disagree that I am mentally ill for being cautious.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Neuroticism

Neuroticism is one of the Big Five higher-order personality traits in the study of psychology. Individuals who score high on neuroticism are more likely than average to be moody and to experience such feelings as anxiety, worry, fear, anger, frustration, envy, jealousy, guilt, depressed mood, and loneliness.[1] People who are neurotic respond worse to stressors and are more likely to interpret ordinary situations as threatening and minor frustrations as hopelessly difficult.

I haven't taken a formal test, but I'd probably score extremely low on that. Counter-productively so. A guy tried to run me over several times once and it barely registered emotionally.

Voat_a_Goat_Mamma

I would really appreciate any help honestly.

It would have been devastating. As it is she has an epi pen because of her egg allergy. She had a reaction to a Z-Pack and went limp and stopped breathing. We had to epi-pen her for that too. She is very allergic to a lot of things, but her brother's so far have not been.

My children are on Medicaid and as such, they can not get allergy testing unless they have an autoimmune disorder like asthma or something like Transverse Myelitis. Only one has mild asthma. I can get him tested if his doctor will give a referral. He has refused to refer my son in the past for a multitude of issues. I can try though.

I'm sorry but that doesn't fit me. I have had several psychological evaluations over my life for various reasons. None of them came back with that. All said I was less emotional than most people and that it was an issue. I have had therapists quit because they said they could not help me. I gave up searching for help. About the only thing in my life that I actually care about is the care and safety of my children.

When you touch a hot pan you withdraw your hand because of the physical pain it inflicts. If you reach back out to touch it while hot, one could conclude you are not very bright or crazy. I am just hypersensitive to possible issues and would rather avoid more issues. The fact that I took her back for a second round, because I was not thinking it was the flu shot, should speak to this.

a11en

I understand you don’t like some of the discussion, or even the ability for the individual to choose how to manage their own health- but that really isn’t a reason to throw out scientific discussions or progress. You can still paint extremists as extremists if you like. There’s a trend here where our society feels some speech and personal responsibility is absolutely detrimental to society. I think it forgets the power of freedom and the personal pursuit of happiness.

Science will still exist after we have a measles outbreak. I think it’s time to be honest about the limitations of research, and the absolutely frustrating practices of the FDA in some areas of the healthcare field.

Like I tell some of my Chinese friends- certainly society is strong enough to allow freedom of speech. If you truly have a strong position, and science backing you, there’s no idiot screaming about some insane theory that will bring it down.

Dortex

I understand you don’t like some of the discussion, or even the ability for the individual to choose how to manage their own health- but that really isn’t a reason to throw out scientific discussions or progress.

I'm confused, were you doing some kind or research on an alternative to vaccines?

There’s a trend here where our society feels some speech and personal responsibility is absolutely detrimental to society.

Weasel words.

Science will still exist after we have a measles outbreak. I think it’s time to be honest about the limitations of research, and the absolutely frustrating practices of the FDA in some areas of the healthcare field.

What does that have to do with the efficacy of vaccines and/or the outbreaks of preventable disease due to negligent parents?

Like I tell some of my Chinese friends- certainly society is strong enough to allow freedom of speech. If you truly have a strong position, and science backing you, there’s no idiot screaming about some insane theory that will bring it down.

I don't know what bringing anything down has to do with anything. Anti-vax parents avoid vaccinating their children. This turns them into vectors for pathogens which may or.may not kill said children. Enough people stop vaccinating them and people who actually can't be vaccinated stand a large chance of coming into contact with a vector and dying. If you think this is about anyone liking certain theories in science, you're sorely mistaken.

smokratez

Spoken like a true disciple from the anti science religion of atheism.

77777777777

Evolution is bullshit. Evolution cannot make a bee hive or an ant colony.

Dortex

'Cept for all those Hives and Colonies we have floating around.

Dougal_McHaggis

Nah they do it to get clickbait money from overweight science illiterate conspiracy tards who read naturalnews.

LexOrandiLexCredendi

Or you could read people like HG Wells and Jonas Salk talking about how they're going to control the population through mass innoculations.

Or go watch Bill Gates' TED talk where he says that a successful African vaccination program will reduce their population.

Or read how vaccines in certain parts of the world were spiked with sterilization drugs.

Dougal_McHaggis

Do you know how many 100s of thousands of people would have to be "in" on such a conspiracy?

Bill and Melinda Gates love niggers. The population of Africa has exploded since they started getting vaccinate by do gooder liberals.

Do you vaccine your pets against rabies and stuff?

LexOrandiLexCredendi

No they wouldn't. It's called siloing.

Keep employees in their segregated job roles where no one knows what the other departments are doing. Doctors giving the injections likely know nothing about what's going on and are simply doing what they're trained to do.

77777777777

Vaccines are deadly poison.

madmalloy

It's the Russians!!!