Are Shills already on Voat? ( conspiracy )

submitted by dolphonebubleine

So there's direct shills and then second-hand shills who have already had their opinion changed and are now out to spread the message (like a virus). Obviously there will be a lot of second-hand shills as we are all exposed to so much mind control (like ads). But it seems very reasonable to me that Voat is already crawling with direct shills.

ColoradoJustice

Kid, I don't know what you're looking to get out of this?

Truly, why have you leached onto me with your inane opinions?

Only explanation is that you enjoy forcing yourself on strangers to get negative attention... which is what you're doing now, pure trolling.

Hope you're happy with what you've become; a troll.

I'm done feeding you. Enjoy the last word troll.

ColoradoJustice

You're just like, this needy, little gollum-creature. "Pay attention to me, pay attention to me, look how smart I am...my preciousssssss intellect." Gahaha come on man fuckin cut it out. My sides.

Sounds like you've described yourself; since you've attached yourself to me like a leach sucking at attention.

Sorry you view yourself so negatively and are so delusional you project it onto strangers you've never met.

forgetmyname

All these mods hitting with the 10 sub limits. Obvious SJW / reddit staffers / AP / Govt employees. Alternative accounts to support their alternative accounts.

ColoradoJustice

No one is trying to impress you, kid.

Just hoping you realize that you're no different than an idiot shouting down people when you say words like "shill" online.

(FYI - I don't try to impress idiots; they are impressed by the dumbest things)

Spacehuman

I'm sure there are some, but you all tend to think everyone is a 'shill'.

Tleilaxu_Ghola

I like how /u/JF_Queeny has grown /v/monsanto over the last year, all the way up to 3 whole subscribers.

ColoradoJustice

You're an asshole, and because you're an asshole, your opinion doesn't matter.

Okay, how are you or anyone else different from that?

We're all assholes with useless opinions, buddy.

Welcome to the internet.

OWNtheNWO

Post something on vaccines or GMO's watch them come out of the woodwork.

FuttsMcButts

I browse always under the presumption that there always is a presence of shills, and that the man is always watching. But that's just me

errihu

Of course they are. This is a free site in which anyone can register with little to no effort, completely anonymously - thus there is no cost to the backers other than a little bit of time. It's also well known by the backers that this is where a number of disgruntled redditors fled. Shills would be deployed here, in part to keep it from ever becoming a major rival to Reddit which can be controlled very easily now.

By the way, the term you're looking for with 'second hand shills' is 'useful idiots'. These are basically regular everyday people not in the pay of anyone who have bought into the message that the shills and their paymasters push and are willing to go out and aggressively defend it from anyone they think is 'wrong'. These are usually young men between the ages of 16-25 (though sometimes they are older) because this demographic is usually swollen with bravado and thinks they have something to prove.

RedHawk

There are a few shills here, certain buzzwords bring them out.

madmalloy

I would have to say yes, they are here.

I discombobulated one by making a sub unaccessible for his games.

TexasComments

Having worked as a Political PR guy on campaigns and for legislative pushes I can tell you that most of the folks who normally politically shill aren't here. The only group that is here are the Sanders folks who are a grassroots political shilling group but that's another point altogether.

Tleilaxu_Ghola

"grassroots political shilling"..nice.

I do like Bernie the most of the candidates right now. Too bad US elections aren't legitimate on the national level anymore.

I turned on Morning Joe for a minute this morning just to see what the Zionist MSM was saying about the Iranian nuclear deal this morning..I accidentally kept it on too long and had to watch them give a loving push for Jeb Bush as a human being candidate. It was essentially a campaign commercial.(sentence added in edit) I turned the channel after I threw up in my mouth a little bit..It is SO obvious how the 2016 "election" is going to go, it is definitely the GOP's "turn" to put their neocon administration in with another Bush frontman for the people the next 8 years.

Yet another Bud vs. Bud Lite election for the people.

Yay democracy! U.S.A! U.S.A!

ColoradoJustice

The word "Shill" is just a Thought-terminating Cliche that avoids intellectually answering the person who's being falsely accused of being a "shill" .

solzyx

not wrong, and the term can become a crutch, but unfortunately, shills do exist, and we should be aware of them, and when it becomes clear that someone really is a shill, it is appropriate to shun and ignore since they are not following the basic terms of engagement that honest people expect from a conversation.

ColoradoJustice

when it becomes clear that someone really is a shill

How can you prove this?

Truly, how can you be 100% sure someone is a paid actor sent to falsely influence the discussion?

This is the internet, where anonymity is the main aspect. (Remember the classic cartoon with the caption: "Online nobody knows you're a dog")

So, how do you know someone is "really a shill"???

since they are not following the basic terms of engagement that honest people expect from a conversation.

How is that?

What are those "basic terms of engagement" and why would breaking them automatically make someone a "shill" (paid participant with an agenda)???

Please, explain these things to me, because right now I feel the term is a crutch as you have so well pointed out. A crutch that people fall upon when their intellect cannot hold up their end of the discussion.

Anon3256320

The way people have downvoated and not bothered properly replying is ridiculous and puts you all in a bad light.

So, how do you know someone is "really a shill"???

There's no meaningful way a regular user can prove this, at least when we're talking about reddit or voat. The closest thing we can get is assuming. In the same way I assume the sun will rise tomorrow, I can assume someone is a shill. I can't prove it, but all my experiences point me in that direction and I can be 100% certain. I can also be wrong at the same time.

What are those "basic terms of engagement" and why would breaking them automatically make someone a "shill" (paid participant with an agenda)???

I have personally seen cases where the suspected shill have used commonly known psychological techniques to "win" a discussion with flawed and lacking arguments. If the best argument doesn't win, the civility of the interaction is lost.

A crutch that people fall upon when their intellect cannot hold up their end of the discussion.

I agree.

ColoradoJustice

There's no meaningful way a regular user can prove this, at least when we're talking about reddit or voat. The closest thing we can get is assuming.

You know what they say about "assuming".

In the same way I assume the sun will rise tomorrow, I can assume someone is a shill.

What?! Are you truly going to say that astronomy, physics, and other proofs for the sun is the same as a false-accusation against someone you don't like and assume they are a "shill?

I can't prove it, but all my experiences point me in that direction and I can be 100% certain.

You can prove the sun will rise tomorrow. This has been done for thousands of years, with precision to the second of when it will come up in every season.

I can also be wrong.

I feel you may be wrong confusing false-accusations with mathematically proven formulas for how the Earth and the Sun behaves.

I have personally seen cases where the suspected shill have used commonly known psychological techniques to "win" a discussion with flawed and lacking arguments.

Huh? You realize that calling someone a "shill" is the same psychological technique of discounting someone by calling them "The Enemy" without any proof in a Thought-Terminating-Cliche that reduces a discussion to a war to "win" (instead of a civil discussion to be had).

If the best argument doesn't win, the civility of the interaction is lost.

Have you seen how people have reacted to my questioning of the term "shill"??? It's not been civil and the interaction has been one of "us vs. them"; instead of a civil discussion about a Thought-Terminating-Cliche that's become overused.

I agree.

Thank you sir for restoring my faith in civility, have an upvoat :)

Anon3256320

You know what they say about "assuming".

Actually no. I'm not from the US or any other English speaking countries so there's a lot of sayings I've not come across. But hazarding a guess, perhaps "Is the best thing we can do in lack of direct evidence"?

You mention astronomy later on, we calculate the surface environment of distant planets on how the light bends around them yet we haven't been there to verify it. Do we not assume, based on supporting evidence?

What?! Are you truly going to say that astronomy, physics, and other proofs for the sun

You spend an awful lot of energy on something I'm sorry to disappoint you with. I see I've worded myself badly, what I meant was that I'm not certain I'll see the sun tomorrow. I can surely die in my bed this night, but based on every other day in my life so far I'm going to wake up to a new day.

Of course there is scientific proof of the sun rising tomorrow.

the same as a false-accusation against someone you don't like and assume they are a "shill?

I can be about as certain that I'll wake up tomorrow as I can be certain a person is a shill, I'd say.

I have personally seen cases where the suspected shill

You realize that calling someone a "shill" is the same psychological technique

I may suspect someone of being a shill, but calling them a shill to shut down discussion or win social points isn't something I'd do.

Have you seen how people have reacted to my questioning of the term "shill"???

Yes. I think it's the wrong way to go about things, so I try to set an example by engaging you in discussion rather than exclusion and social stigma, despite seemingly coming at conspiracy theories from two different angles.

ColoradoJustice

I can be about as certain that I'll wake up tomorrow as I can be certain a person is a shill, I'd say.

I doubt that's true. One is a pretty certain if you're in good health, the other is a false-accusation upon someone to avoid treating them like a human being.

I may suspect someone of being a shill, but calling them a shill to shut down discussion or win social points isn't something I'd do.

That's very good of you. Though I feel that you're in the minority.

Yes. I think it's the wrong way to go about things, so I try to set an example by engaging you in discussion rather than exclusion and social stigma, despite seemingly coming at conspiracy theories from two different angles.

Yes, I agree with you, unfortunately, discussion and ambiguity is not as easy as accusations and black/white logic.

But hazarding a guess, perhaps "Is the best thing we can do in lack of direct evidence"?

I disagree, I think it is a lot healthier to say "I don't know" -- Instead of guessing and making false-accusations.

frankenmine

No, shills may also provide services for money-equivalent or intangible benefits. Corrupt SJW powermods belong to the latter group, for instance. They provide services for the illusion of control in their otherwise useless and worthless lives.

ColoradoJustice

No, shills may also provide services for money-equivalent or intangible benefits.

Not in the classic definition of the word .

Though I understand how power can be a form of payment as well, but the key element for a shill is to "pretend to be an outsider" while actually being "paid" to participate. A moderator is clearly assigned for all to see, so there is little deception going on in terms of the uneven relationship.

The word "shill" has been used by the conspiracy community to falsely accuse anyone they don't want to have any reasonable discussion with.

That's my problem with the term, it's supposed to be an insult, but really is just a thought-ending cliche.

frankenmine

A moderator pretending to impartially carry out janitorial duties while secretly pushing some agenda (SJW ideology, or TPP censorship, or something else) in exchange for the illusion of control would certainly qualify for the classic definition of shilling.

ColoradoJustice

By the very nature that they are moderators their relationship with the corporation is not impartial.

This isn't "classic shilling" by any sense of the term; though I can see how it bleeds into it when moderators are "bought with power" by certain interests. I'd like to see specifically how this was done, evidence of it.

Personally, I feel the term "shill" has been overused by the internet community and has become a thought-terminating cliche for anyone that they disagree with.

frankenmine

Your feelings are wrong.

Racer_the_observer

You must realize they will try everything to get rid of any competition.

Marijuana_Merlin

what is a shill?

ColoradoJustice

Someone who's opinions you disagree with but refuse to actually discuss what they are saying. So, instead, you call them a "shill" and pretend that they are a paid government agent who's opinions you don't actually have to take seriously.

photonasty

Undercover marketers, PR people, or astroturfers. ("Astroturfing" is "fake grass roots," basically.)

These people pose as normal users, so that they can attempt to inject certain ideas, opinions, and viewpoints into the discussion. This could involve, for example, posting something positive about a product. It could also include seeding certain viewpoints in political discussions, or trying to dispel unpleasant opinions about a corporation.

The thing with Reddit and Voat is that they're not good places for direct advertising. They're designed for users to aggregate interesting content in an unbiased way, not for content marketers to promote products. However, Reddit (and to some extent, Voat) provides information that helps marketers to further laser-focus their audience targeting. For example, if you're advertising a brick-and-mortar video game store in Ontario, you could filter and display your ads to users whose subreddit subscriptions indicate that they both live in Ontario, and are interested in video gaming. This analytics potential does make Reddit (and to a less extent at this point, Voat) appealing for advertisers, but there isn't a lot of room on there for blatant ads. So many of us suspect that marketers (as well as possibly political lobbyists) may be posing as users to very subtly promote brands or even ideologies.

solzyx

such an in-depth response. the only thing i would add is that i regard the idea that there are shills amongst us as more than a suspicion. rather, i think there is pretty strong evidence for it, for both marketers and political operatives. this evidence is of two sorts: first, from the side of the shill-employer (ie we have official reports of agencies both private and public spending significant money on this kind of thing and hiring people to do this), and second, local evidence from the behavior of certain users.

blipblipbeep

Highlight the word shill, right click on it, then choose the "search Google for" option.

I use firefox. Your welcome.

peace...

nokilli

How else to describe the moderation here on /v/conspiracy , the whole point of which is to appear open and transparent while enforcing rule #2, a rule designed to prevent discussion of the only conspiracy that matters.

Sciency

This guy you're talking to is clearly trying to start shit. Refuse to engage, and the trolls will starve to death.

ColoradoJustice

You sound like someone who's so wound up on his own pretentiousness that you'd have to corkscrew your head out of your own ass.

Whatever you want to call me, that's up to you.

I'll imagine you'll call me a "shill" or whatever other word allows you and others to dismiss what I'm saying like some Orwellian double-speak nightmare.

Please spare me your attempts at a flame war with me.

I get it, I'm a douchebag who doesn't think his own shit smells. Despite the fact that the term "shill" doesn't apply to either of the scenarios that the submitter described, here you are going to WhiteKnight idiots and their desire to shout down people with false accusations.

Good on you, you've made the world a better place.

Please go find someone else to vomit your ideas upon like diarrhea of the mouth.

Sciency

You might have read something like this before, but you should also know, that we have too.

I don't give a fuck who you claim to be, you are not welcome here if you can't communicate without fallacy.

ColoradoJustice

Or is the fallacy the normalization of false accusations on strangers like "shill"?

Do you think it's not a fallacy to falsely accuse people of being paid to comment (actual definition of word "shill")?

Or do you think the English language now suddenly doesn't apply here?

Sciency

This is the final post I will be devoting to you, so if you are genuinely not a shill, please note (and I promise this is really easy to understand):

If you act like a dingus, it does not matter for a moment why you are acting like a dingus. You are using ad hominem in the place of reason, which is a problem. If you stop doing that, we will have no grounds upon which to accuse you of such a silly passtime as being a sock puppet (after all, who possibly live with themselves, lying to strangers for a living).

So.. yes or no answer here: Do ya feel me? Y'know, the general point here that Im trying to make? Yo comprendo? I sure hope so.

Have a simply magical day, I know I'm sure gonna try to do the same.

ColoradoJustice

so if you are genuinely not a shill, please note (and I promise this is really easy to understand):

This is a such a silly statement, it's so dumb! It's like you saying "if you're actually a human, not a robot..."

You cannot verify this one way or another and to continue with false accusations as though they do anything but destroy discussion is ridiculous.

If you act like a dingus, it does not matter for a moment why you are acting like a dingus. You are using ad hominem in the place of reason, which is a problem.

You mean what you're doing right now???

Please stop pretending that your own rules don't apply to you, hypocrite .

If you stop doing that, we will have no grounds upon which to accuse you of such a silly passtime as being a sock puppet (after all, who possibly live with themselves, lying to strangers for a living).

STFU and get a life you controlling weirdo.

You aren't Ellen Pao; get off your high horse and STFU.

ColoradoJustice

I don't give a fuck who you claim to be, you are not welcome here if you can't communicate without fallacy.

Is the fallacy using curse words to pretend you have any power over strangers on a forum?

TwentySeven

That's so comforting...

kanin

got spare change?

Vheissu_

Given the publicity that Voat has received in the media lately and most of it being negative, it was only a matter of time. If you were tasked with swaying opinion on certain topics, you would be a fool to not get in early to establish a non-suspicious presence.