jodieann

Some firefighters in Sacramento and Los Angeles were able to remove the 5g towers next to fire stations due to all the health problems firemen were experiencing.

http://scientists4wiredtech.com/2018/07/firefighters-living-next-to-cell-towers-suffer-neurological-damage/

http://emfsafetynetwork.org/help-los-angeles-firefighters-stop-cell-towers/

https://wcranv.com/cbs-news-admits-5g-is-already-causing-staggering-health-problems/

For those wishing to fight this when they come to your city you should follow Virginia Farver on how to stop them by flooding city council meetings with tons of scientific literature. Here's one of the best reports:

file:///C:/Users/Owner/Downloads/Microsoft%20Word%20-%20EU-EMF2018-6-11US3.doc.pdf

Virginia is an expert in the effects of 5g technology and has a lot of good information on how to educate local governments on it's dangers.

fuckmyreddit

@bunnysupreme , you should start another thread like this on v/whatever , so more people will see it. I hate whatever we have now. 5G will be worse. I always thought I could run away to New Zealand in a pinch, but some kiwi found out China owns most of the north island. I guess I'll start looking at Africa or maybe Russia.

fuckmyreddit

Please stop 5G. I can hardly live with whatever G is buzzing in my house right now. Were can I go to get away from ALL G?

winners_history

The 5G frequency spectrum includes that already in use by the US Military for 'pain beams' .

Another source ...

Inaminit

It's not just phones, homes and businesses that will have a Chip, Folks... Soon, everyone will be Chipped at birth and then what?

We had all been grilled about not standing in front of the radar beams (did not want to be cooked or go sterile - you know). Well someone figured out that if you threw a flash cube or flashbulb up in front of the acquisition radar beam (in just the right place) the flashbulb would pop. (light up) - Ted Swanson, SP-5 IFC Radar Maint Chief, A/2/52 (HM-69) 1966-68

speedisavirus

You faggots are so low IQ

blueskywins

Project much? Go fuck yourself, Satan-worshipping loser.

AlphaOmega

If there is one thing I know after being in and around the healthcare field, it’s that well sourced warnings like this, no matter how accurate, will never come close to stalling anything people with money want to do.

letsgoallthewhey

A thousand times this.

white_male30

kys

VOALTRON

This is the kind of stupid shit that lobbyists for loser corporation's push for. If the fuckers had invested into developing their own 5G networks, instead of lobbying politicians, we wouldn't have to listen to them crying about their failure to keep current with technology.

Tallest_Skil

I just want faster wired communications. It can’t be that hard. Not nearly as hard as building the microinfrastructure for 5G.

fuckmyreddit

Yes. I want to get wired internet throughout my house, but were so close to our neighbors that the wiring guy said it won't make any difference. I would move if I could find an area without wifi.

glassuser

Actually it's really hard. At the speeds we work at now, millimeter-length differences in conductor runs make a huge difference (you'll usually only notice this for traces on high clock speed circuit boards). We can't really do parallel buses any more because of that length difference problem (IDE/PATA is now SATA). Add to those issues that copper in cables picks up RF energy and the signals get lost in it (look at why we use UTP for Ethernet). There is a (relatively) huge latency imposed by going from copper to optical and back (see why twinax patches are better than running fiber within racks in your datacenter).

Rajadog20

You can't get faster then fiber lines

Tallest_Skil

We don't have fiber lines. There's no buildout because of government-sponsored ISP collusion. I pay $50 a month for 25 Mb/s. This is the fastest I can get without moving .

UnknownAlias365

Lucky. I only get 12 Mbps on a good day.

satisfyinghump

Hold up... I'm not a fan of 5g, but, it's much harder to lay down fiber line for faster physical line networking then it is for wireless.

Hence look at Africa, no infrastructure for wired networking, only wireless (although there it's also about giving them less to steal... lol)

Tallest_Skil

5G can’t go through rain or buildings. It needs millions of microtowers, which means tens of millions of miles of new wired infrastructure if it’s ever going to get the speeds that it claims make its rollout worthwhile. Instead of wasting time with the towers when you already need to lay lines, why not just have the good infrastructure–the lines?

Tb0n3

Hold up. If it can't go through fucking RAIN, how do people expect it to penetrate the human body?

speedisavirus

Yes it can. I see you don't understand things like ef

Tallest_Skil

Yes it can.

The fucking organizational body responsible for it openly admits you're wrong, you stupid fucking lunatic.

There is one major drawback to millimeter waves, though— they can’t easily travel through buildings or obstacles and they can be absorbed by foliage and rain. That’s why 5G networks will likely augment traditional cellular towers with another new technology, called small cells.

BLOWN. THE. FUCK. OUT.

placed every 250 meters or so throughout cities.

WHY NOT JUST BUILD A REAL FUCKING FIBER NETWORK INSTEAD.

fuckmyreddit

Why not just put us in a real physical cage that everyone can see. What's the fucking difference? We cant escape the planet anyway. Why not just let them implant chips in our heads. It would be cheaper.

qwop

which means tens of millions of miles of new wired infrastructure

And more specifically fiber optics. Which is why there's fiber optic stocks looking like this:
https://i.imgur.com/aLEtHxF.png

Here's the logic: build a vast fiber optic and wired network, connect it everywhere, EXCEPT the last few hundred feet into customer's homes. Instead place an irradiating antenna outside their bedroom window, and convince everyone we don't need no stinking wired networks.

fuckmyreddit

Yeah qwop, we dont need no stinkin' brain cells. Maybe 5G will be painless and we'll just go blank and not care anymore. 5G bothers me even more than child trafficking, if you can imagine.

vastrightwing

I only ask why it's so important to spend the resources required to implement space and the planet with 5G. It's not like consumers are asking for 5G tech. It's being forced on us. Remember how long it took telecoms to implement digital cell networks and then to implement almost 4G? Now it's like they can't wait to implement 5G. Something smells bad here.

winners_history

You know what it's for? The digital Panopticon.

Wait until the "connected, self-driving" vehicle fleet is widespread. Every one of those transport pods will be scanning not only visually, but with radar and LIDAR at a range of hundreds of feet. And of course terabytes of information will be flowing along those 'connections' for "traffic de-confliction", and other 'safety purposes'.

The fluffy, benign 'justification' is already being prepared: "Autonomous Car Tips off rescuers to lost child location!" Then it's just a short step to 'officer-safety' and "anti-terror".

fuckmyreddit

Oh God, I feel bad from an injury that gives me constant pain. You just made me want to cry.

Tb0n3

Because tech doesn't stop improving just because you don't understand it. Nobody needs anything faster than [blank] has never turned out to be sustainable. Nobody needs faster than an 8086, 2600 baud, 100MB Hard drive, etc.

vastrightwing

Nobody understood tobacco until they did.

speedisavirus

Yes they are

1234554321

Yeah, they're asking for more niggers too...

capnflummox

Because it will allow (((them))) (whomever you think (((them))) is) to control Power (electricity). Global Power Control is their ultimate goal.

fuckmyreddit

Cant we create our own Tesla energy? If the 5G grid actually happens, I guess I'll just give up. I want to stay on the planet to help my kids, but I dont know if I can handle 5G. Can we get a 5G Sanctuary City?

carlip

RF radiation has been proven harmful for humans and the environment.

Let's put the cart further in-front of the horse. Let's beg the question a bit more. Let's get more straw for our man. Let's get those goalposts on wheels for easier moving.

satisfyinghump

What do you mean?

yellowthread

He's accusing them of being disingenious, however the more likely explanation is that they don't understand electromagnetism very well.

BlueDrache

Waaaaaaaaaaaah!!!! non-ionizing radiation is harmful!!!! Waaaaaaaaaaaahhhh!!!

Um ... no ... it's not?

qwop

Non-ionizing radiation is not required for harm. Electromagnetic fields disrupt biological systems through many different mechanisms.

They disrupt cellular metabolism on a molecular level. One of the consequences is free radical damage with several downstream effects. Another is disruption of the cellular membrane, effects on the mitochondrial electron transport chain, and disruption of neurological glucose metabolism, also with downstream consequences.

"Effects of Cell Phone Radiofrequency Signal Exposure on Brain Glucose Metabolism":
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3184892/

"Electromagnetic fields act via activation of voltage-gated calcium channels to produce beneficial or adverse effects":
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3780531/

1670 peer-reviewed papers on electromagnetic effects on biology:
https://drive.google.com/file/d/19CbWmdGTnnW1iZ9pxlxq1ssAdYl3Eur3/view

The ionizing requirement is a completely fabricated myth spread by the cellular industry. Time to educate yourself and stop spreading misinformation.

Delacourt

Exposure to regular old radio frequencies can literally burn you if the power is high enough. It's a common enough hazard that there's a question about it on the FCC test to become ham radio certified.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Radiation_burn

Radiation burns can also occur with high power radio transmitters at any frequency where the body absorbs radio frequency energy and converts it to heat.[1] The U.S. Federal Communications Commission (FCC) considers 50 watts to be the lowest power above which radio stations must evaluate emission safety. Frequencies considered especially dangerous occur where the human body can become resonant, at 35 MHz, 70 MHz, 80-100 MHz, 400 MHz, and 1 GHz.

Non-ionizing radiation can be dangerous.

speedisavirus

And 5g isn't. Point?

Rajadog20

You do realize that 5g waves have a much higher frequency and thus more energy than wavelengths, right? Is a microwave dangerous??

It's all about the frequency of the waves used and how many waves are focused on a small area.

Older teach is less dangerous because it isn't such high energy focused on a small area

VOALTRON

It's not the frequency, it's the power that makes waves dangerous. Your phone, garage door opener, wireless speakers, etc. all use 2.4ghz. So does a microwave oven.

The difference is that the waves used for communication operate at around 0.5 watts of power compared to an oven that is blasting those same waves at around 1,000 watts.

Everything in the world is lethal if misused, or taken in overdose quantities. Even air, water, and sunlight.

People need to understand that the sudden anti-5G hype is being pushed by the companies that don't have 5G networks built yet. They are going to lose many customers, billions of dollars to Verizon, AT&T, and others that have invested into building 5G networks. Those 5G networks are just now starting to go live, hence the sudden fear mongering to try to slow down expansion, so that the loser companies can catch up, and compete.

We have seen this before with the introduction of 3G, and 4G networks. The companies with the better networks get the customers, while the slacker companies lose customers. The big difference this time however, is that the 5G networks are vastly superior to the old tech. It's not just a step up, it's exponentially better than the old stuff. People will drop their old networks, and switch to 5G in mass- a lot of companies that don't have 5G tech stand to lose a lot of money.

fuckmyreddit

Hey Voaltron, I cant hear wifi already everywhere I go. I can tell if a park is online. This is not a joke. I cant find a way to get out of the grid. Maybe rural Oklahoma? Maybe Africa? Maybe Poland. I would do almost anything to get rid of 4G. It's like being underwater. I'm drowning in wifi. Just wait until you become sensitive to this ethereal poison!

VOALTRON

If you really have an innate ability to sense wifi with only your body, then I highly suggest that you apply for some kind of research project. I'm sure there are a number of organizations that would be very interested in your unique talent.

qwop

This is not a unique talent. It is estimated that 2-5% of the population are electrically sensitive. In Sweden, which is the forerunner on this issue, it has already been taken seriously and given a medical diagnosis.

In addition, the WHO (World Health Organization) has known about this since at least 1973, as this was put forth by Russian scientists after 20 years of studying the phenomenon, during the Warsaw symposium on electromagnetic fields at that time:

https://twitter.com/ChronicExposure/status/1005766884216725504

Read the underlined text. The 350-page PDF report from the symposium is linked in the tweet.

Voaltron, get your head out of your ass already.

UnknownAlias365

I agreed with the first half up until you mentioned the fear of 5g is produced by companies who haven't invested in it. That's bullshit. It's based on independent research free from government and big wireless influence.

Rajadog20

I think you're missing the point. Frequency and wavelength are inversely proportional. 1 Watt of higher energy radio waves are more dangerous than 1 Watt of a lower energy wave because that power is much more condensed with shorter wavelengths.

https://imgoat.com/uploads/c5bde74a8f/181207.png

https://imgoat.com/uploads/c5bde74a8f/181208.png

These towers also multiple directional antennas. Meaning that power can further be focused to provide more energy to a specific area. They can get as specific targeting a specific cell phone.

Lets say the EFR of a cell tower is 5w (I believe it is somewhere in that range at least). If all that power is able to be focused on a single area the size of a person, there would be significant health concerns. It isn't inconceivable that this could be used as a weapon although I am unsure the EFR limits set by the FCC for these towers and if they are taking into account directional antennas.

This doesn't compare to a .5watt nondirectional wifi router.

VOALTRON

...No one is saying this stuff can burn you alive before your eyes,...

Sadly, some people are making such ridiculous claims. And some people are buying it too :(

...the concern is years of exposure to these waves. Hell, people are still concerned about current gen cell phones and wifi causing cancer after decades.

And that is a legitimate concern. But those concerns can be applied to all kinds of EMF waves. But I'm not ready to start walking around with tin-foil hats, or live in a pre-electricity society either. Technophobia is real. Fortunately, great societies are not led by the most fearful of our kind.

qwop

Fortunately, great societies are not led by the most fearful of our kind.

Nor the smartest ones:

"When Shoes Were Fit with X-Rays":
https://daily.jstor.org/when-shoes-were-fit-with-x-rays/

Rajadog20

Which is why I think we should tread lightly before we go exponentially increasing the power of these devices. IF there is any chance whatsoever that longterm exposure can cause damage, it would be wrong to force people to live with it.

Do we yet know if there is any higher occurrence of cancer if the frequencies of the waves are increased yet the power remains the same?

We know for a fact that if rats are exposed to the max exposure amount that the FCC consideres safe, they will die quickly from cancer. Why would this not happen in humans? Its more than just the "heating of skin".

Do we yet know why high frequency radio waves cause cancer in rats even though it's non-ionizing?

qwop

There's even an additional problem, and that is that all the alphabet agencies are measuring AVERAGE power. Yet all these digital devices produce pulsed radiation. Nobody is looking at this issue from a biological standpoint. They model the head of a human as a jelly blob, then they stick a thermometer inside it, and if it doesn't rise too far, then everything is fine. It's completely inadequate and insane method to use for biological safety.

Rajadog20

Yeah, FCC guidlines even mention not to be directly under or near cell towers.

https://www.fcc.gov/consumers/guides/human-exposure-radio-frequency-fields-guidelines-cellular-and-pcs-sites

Does anyone know where to find the reported ERP for these new towers? I am having trouble finding anything to do some math.

qwop

It's not the frequency, it's the power that makes waves dangerous. Your phone, garage door opener, wireless speakers, etc. all use 2.4ghz. So does a microwave oven.

This is not strictly true. Frequency has a a lot to do with it when you start to compare frequency to polar molecules like water, or other molecular structures in the human body. There is a reason the microwave oven uses 2.4GHz, and it has to do specifically with the resonant frequency of water molecules.

Oxygen again has a peak around 60Ghz, which is one reason wireless companies want to build some of their 5G networks around this frequency. The specific reason is the absorption of oxygen allows them to prevent interference between closely spaced frequency bands, because of the damping effect caused by oxygen.

When it comes to biological structures again, we have millions and billions of molecules inside out bodies, many with resonant frequencies that have never been mapped out. In addition the body is also full of charged particles; for example every cell in your body produces energy by shuffling protons and electrons through something called the electron transport chain.

And what does electromagnetic fields do to charged particles?

Next question then is, well if electromagnetic fields influence biological molecules and charged particles, what is happening inside our bodies when we are exposed to them?

The answer is not trivial, and it is not unimportant nor simple either.

So when you think the pushback for 5G comes purely from companies because of economic incentives, you have made an unfortunately poor guess based on limited information. There is a legitimate scientific reason why this pushback is happening, and it has nothing to do with economics.

VOALTRON

...There is a legitimate scientific reason why this pushback is happening, and it has nothing to do with economics.

It has everything to do with economics.

Nearly every single doom, and gloom, over hyped claim made against 5G waves could be made against 4G, 3G, 2G, radio waves, etc. Just [insert wavelength] + [insert doomsday, fear mongering claim] + [omit the relationship of how power influences the waves] = [make whatever doomsday predictions the people funding "independent research" want made] = corporate fear mongering propaganda, that is technically true. But, grossly over-exaggerated to fit with an (economic) agenda.

The cool thing about 5G, is that in can be targeted with pin point accuracy, as some people have already pointed out in this thread.

So here is my proposal for the anti-5G people: Demand that your wireless devices not be targeted for 5G service. We can steer those nasty 5G death rays away from those people, real easy. Problem solved.

qwop

The 5G pushback is part of a larger pushback and awakening against all wireless devices. The reason the term "5G" comes up so much is that this term is now being used by the industry to push for the next wireless utopia. Therefore it is the term that should be currently used for pushing back against their reckless plans.

You really do not seem to have any idea what is coming. I can give you study after study that shows man-made microwave, and in fact all electromagnetic fields are biologically harmful, and in fact we're already seeing a manifestation of this harm in the current population.

Here's a graph of temporal (side) and frontal lobe glioma (brain cancer) statistics.

https://microwavenews.com/sites/default/files/de-vocht-response.jpg

Don't you think someone should be looking into this?

But go ahead, keep putting your head in the sand thinking this is only some economic conspiracy.

Tb0n3

How many watts is a microwave oven again?

qwop

See my other reply below also. The microwave oven comparison is not a good one, unless we only discuss thermal effects. Microwaves can damage biological systems in other ways too, that are not thermal.

Here's a graph of 67 studies rated by microwave power density, where biological effects were observed that are not related to thermal effects. As you can see, effects were observed way below current safety guidelines:

https://i.imgur.com/14uxRru.png

fuckmyreddit

You're either a bot or worse. Why would you believe those studies? Do you also believe polling data from NPR?

Rajadog20

  1. Why do you ask?

Tb0n3

Just trying to think for yourself here. A microwave requires hundreds of watts, usually 800 or more, to cook effectively. It produces heat to denature proteins and cook meat. Radio towers, thanks to the inverse square law, will introduce far far less than what is necessary to heat anything up even one degree at all operating distances.

Rajadog20

How many watts do you think cell towers are?

Can you sleep under a cell tower for years without any adverse effects? This is focusing the power of a small cell tower to a much smaller area. I don't think you need 800 watts to damage cells. Would you be comfortable sleeping in a 20 watt microwave? Sure, you may not feel anything, but over years what would the effects be? Would it not still cook the food but just much slower?

Tb0n3

The 100 watt or so towers radiate inn all directions so even up close you're likely only seeing a watt or less. You're likely receiving more just living in your house, or driving down the street.

Rajadog20

Yes, at the moment.

The new 5g towers are MIMO so they can focus on a single area such as a person if it is designed to do so.

We are yet to understand what the long term effects of placing one of these towers on every street (although supposably at a lower power) and focusing all the power in a smaller area are. Thats not even to mention what longterm exposure of 100ghz waves do at any power level. Its a fact that rats receive cancer from this wavelength even at the max "safe" power level.

Tb0n3

The better the focus, the less power needed.

Rajadog20

No because you will have a higher wave intensity

Tb0n3

More energetic waves would contain the same power as input. Same at 100W as a lower frequency, just lower penetration.

qwop

It's not that simple. Biological systems do not appear to have a linear response to EM radiation. In fact some research has shown higher exposure can induce something similar to a protection response, while lower exposure can produce worse effects due to the missed protection response.

Also the microwave analogy has another problem, in that it relies solely on the heating effect, while biological effects have been observed outside this heating response. I.e. there also exists other mechanisms besides heating, that can produce biological effects.

fusir

I'm going to pretend I'm the balanced person here. Non-ionizing radiation is harmful in large quantities. Don't believe that.. put your hand in the microwave.

I know there has been some reports of some police radios causing breast cancer because that's a broadcast strength signal, with encryption, and redundancy, sitting basically right on the breast.

So the issue is that microwave can cause mild tissue damage, which then heals, but some parts of the body are really not built for healing burns. Take cataracts and radar operators for example. That's damage from non ionizing radiation that unlike most of the body doesn't heal.

Now does 5g cross that threshold? I'm not holding my breath but I'm also not going to throw away the claims entirely. It is theoretically possible for something to cross a threshold, but it's also practical that people will complain about it on the internet even if it doesn't.

fuckmyreddit

I want whatever causes the least damage to biological entities. Why is government allowed to kill us slowly. Even if Trump and the military can keep us safe, what will happen when we get Obama 2.0? Get wired people. If that's too slow for you, find a frequency that doesn't cook us.

fusir

That seems reasonable to me. I really want the internet to be more text oriented. The data rates needed for that are so low we wouldn't need 5g or even 4g.

NevadaDesertPatriot

remove the word NEED.

fusir

What we actually are more towers.

drakesdoom2

5g has more towers. The higher frequency can't carry as far so you have too have more. You are arguing against what you say you want.

fusir

I'm not arguing against 5g. I'm only arguing against the notion that all non-ionizing radiation can fundamentally be written off. For all I know 5g is more safe.

VitGet

He's pretending I thought