Mastodon bones place humans in America 130,000 years ago

hwong 2019-05-13T21:43

Kenniwik Man remembers.....

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Wolf451 2019-05-13T21:38

The earth is only between 6 to 7 thousand years old. I know this sounds crazy, but put on your critical thinking cap, weigh the evidence on both sides yourself, and you will be shocked 😮. I guess God is real and the Bible is correct after all.

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P33psh04h 2019-05-14T03:40

I have heard that the Earth only being 6k years old is metaphorical and from God's point of view of time.

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GizaDog 2019-05-13T21:56

BOING!!! ^^^^^

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CatsControlTheEU 2019-05-13T21:13

If there were people back then on the continent, they are not related to the natives that still live. All the DNA of the living natives show a shared ancestry circa 15,000 years ago with East Asians. Whoever those people were, they either all died or left. But if there were people living here, even if most of them left - some would have almost certainly died at some point. I find it really odd that none of the bodies we have found indicate any people older than the migration that happened 10-15,000 years ago. Something doesn't add up.

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Le_Squish 2019-05-14T03:24

There are sites in South America that predate the oldest north American by thousands of years. The truth is we don't know when the Americas were populated. Homo Erectus and related species fully colonized Europe and Asia. I don't see any reason why they would not have been capable of reaching the Americas.

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madscientist3469 2019-05-13T21:34

Part of why we've never found human remains from older than 15k years ago, is it was universally accepted in archaeology that there wouldn't be any that old, so archaeologists would dig until they got to layers corresponding to the ~15k years ago time period, and wouldn't go any further thinking it was a waste of time.

Also I seem to recall that the remains that were found at ~15k years ago are either one human or one site. Can't remember which. But it's not like we have a plethora of 15k yr old remains either.

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CatsControlTheEU 2019-05-13T21:44

and wouldn't go any further thinking it was a waste of time.

This seems like a kind of silly thing to do but I'm no archaeologist so who am I to tell them how to do it.

I know we don't have a ton of 15k remains but what we do know is that the DNA between that layer of remains matches with the DNA of current natives which in turn is related to the East Asians. At least that's the whole idea behind the groups of people crossing the ice bridge. I'm curious to know what happened to that 130k group.

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madscientist3469 2019-05-13T22:31

Also not an archaeologist, but this is my understanding from my google-fu:

There is definitely a genetic linkage between Asians and natives. However, I don't think the genetic data tells us anything about the date they crossed, just that they are related.

They only could have crossed the bearing strait during a couple timeframes in history, depending on the cycles of the ice ages. At the peak of the ice age, there was an impassable ice mountain across the bearing strait. As the earth warmed, the ice melted, land was exposed, and the strait is crossable by land for a certain period before the sea level rises enough that it's under water, and a while after that another ice age comes along and we're back at ice mountain again.

So up until this point, the oldest evidence of humans found in the Americas was like 13k years ago. This corresponded nicely with the last time the strait was passable, at around 15k years ago, as the last time it was passable before that was 140k yrs ago. So it was just accepted that it happened in that 15k yrs ago window. But now with evidence showing humans 130k yrs ago, and I believe there were even remains found in Mexico or South America at like 50k years ago, it seems likely that they could have come across in the window when the strait was passable 140k years ago.

It's a really fascinating topic I don't know nearly enough about. Graham Hancock talked about a lot of this on the Joe Rogan Experience and has written a few books on the topic. They're on my "to-read" list but i haven't worked down to them yet.

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CatsControlTheEU 2019-05-13T23:08

I was under the impression that the genetic link between the two was comprised of genetic markers that did not exist in Asian populations as far back as 130k years. Meaning then that whether there were people already alive and living in the Americas or not, that some Asiatic made it over to the Americas probably around that last time the bridge was passable.

As for polynesia like you i don't know that much about the ocean floor or islands in between but from just a glance at some maps we can that there are a number of island chains within relatively close distance to eachother leading to both Easter island as well as Hawaii (where of course we have actual living Polynesian descendants). But when you look at the presence of islands in between Easter Island and S.America and Hawaii with N./Central America - there seems to be a very distinct lack of many that are big enough to make it onto the less detailed maps.

So I believe that if the Polynesians who got to Easter island or Hawaii traveled to the Americas that the journey would have been a very hard one and significantly longer than the journeys that they had undertaken before. For example if one was to island hop from the Philippines the longest distance they would have to travel (assuming a beeline of course) was about 900 miles/1448 km. Obviously this kind of trip was made because we have the living natives of Hawaii who are relatively recent polynesian descendants. But the shortest trip I measured out between Hawaii and the closest island of the Americas I could see which was Catalina was around 2,440 miles/3926 km. The polynesians were the best at surviving long distance by boat that we know of at the time but even that seems a bit difficult for them. And of course they would not know when they would reach land, or if they even would. Of course as you mention this is using current maps, there could have just as easily been a few small atolls, islands, or pieces of ice land that are no longer there. I think it is definitely feasible that there was more than one connection either via island hopping or another ice bridge.

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madscientist3469 2019-05-14T16:16

Absolutely agreed. I think the Polynesian island hopping route is very unlikely. The proponents of the theory have suggested that there would have been other islands East of Hawaii that would've been exposed at that time, but even so, it would require advanced navigation. Very unlikely. I think they came over by land. I just point it out because it's interesting and thought provoking, and there are vast amounts of information we simply don't know, and never will be able to know, about what the earth looked like hundreds of thousands of years ago. We've built up this accepted history because it fits nicely with what we've discovered so far, but we much change the model when anomalous information comes to light.