Dysnomia

Anarchism and a gift economy in line with permaculture ethics and principles.

Three ethics of permaculture: earth care, people care, return of surplus to thee earth and people(also called fair share.)

eraser851

What about something like Bitcoin?

IAmHuman011010

I don't see what's wrong with expatrating from an insane society. I would in an instant if I could afford it. I'd have a nice little organic farm in Costa Rica, I'd fish for my meat, and I would finally be free. After years of trying to make people more aware, "Live and let die" seems the only perspective that will allow my own happiness.

Jubelum

Check out "the virtue of selfishness" or "constitution of no authority" for some good insights on what I would say is the proper role of government. As far as ideal that is too strong a word.

eraser851

We're a very divided nation. People are conditioned to think in terms of black & white. Us vs Them, Blacks vs Whites, Liberal vs Conservative, etc. We need to find the gray area in the middle that both sides can get behind.

Impuredeath

I don't particulary consider freedom a good thing. Ones freedom is anothers oppression and even death.

Personally I hope for a system that is run by intelligent minds. Since live is becoming more automated, people are practically becoming more and more useless. Hopefully we could get a system where everyone has a basic income, and you can work for additional money. If you can get work that is.

Right now the only reason there is war is because of differences in opinions and culture. This includes religion, greed, self-centered etc. But keep in mind that only over the last 20 years we started really interacting with each other. Right now we can see cruelty on the other side of the world, this wasn't possible before. So in due time there might be a chance that people come to terms.

But of course how does a world change from people with wealth in power to everyone in power? The wealthy are one of the biggest factors that keep us back in this world. If for example all the money they spend on war was spend on spacetravel, we could have had a mining base in space somewhere right now, harvesting valuable material. And maybe even send humans to other planets.

But instead we hold ourselves back, we don't cure but prolong, we dont resolve but continue to fight. For the wealthy there is no reason to stop war, or cure deceases or make big leaps in tech.

So how does this change? The fact is, it has to change and it will change. But the catalyst, I do not know.

Jubelum

If what you call freedom is doing harm than I suggest it is not freedom. If your will involves another it is not freedom it is relationship which can be good or bad . Your freedom ends with you.

carcoma

Good point. And even giants in the woods only get away with what they're able to get away with, I suppose.

carcoma

...perpetuated by the very notion that a system of government can liberate the people.

The most a system of government could do towards that aim is to actually govern as little as possible.

... But what self-respecting government would do that?

carcoma

It's hard to imagine, since any 'ideal alternative' to the coercive hierarchies that currently stand in most, if not all societies are more or less thought experiments. We'd have to have a precise understanding of what is really going on in our world if we were to understand precisely what is wrong with it. Most of us here at least have some intuitive understanding that our societies are manipulated by the elite, but have imprecise and dubious factual claims to support our intuition. An ideal alternative to our systems would counteract or prevent all the things that are wrong with our current system; but knowing what that would look like requires more than intuition regarding our current system's failings, and would also probably need some experiments to be done in social organization.

As a thought experiment, though, I think a society with as small of a state as possible would be best. This could include the dissolution of large states entirely. A society whose laws and customs are taken from common law and the principle of self ownership. It wouldn't solve every problem, of course. It might, however, free people to create their own local solutions to their own local problems and allow for a more intimate and community based society. It has its problems though, and it might not be feasible without certain technologies, and without most of us first denying the validity of coercive systems.