xanaxinator

I appreciate your opinion, and agree with you.

I think that the "BTC bubble" is over...that is, unless people start dropping fiat money in lieu of BTC or something like SR/SR2 again gains mass popularity!

xanaxinator

Nope, you did not. It was /u/ethernet .

I'm still learning my way around here and, as you know, the thing that he sent me wasn't saved in my Inbox. I'm sure that, if you ask him, he can send you a copy...or maybe it can be searched for.

In any case, it was an exceptionally-well-crafted reply and was chock-full of citations and links. Good reading--it taught me a lot about BTC (mainly how it was created, by whom, and why) that I had no idea about before.

That's actually a great idea re: CL! I'd even go a step further and insist on BTC payments only if I were a "true" evangelist. Right now I only hold about $600 in BTC and, as I told you, I have that app that tracks its price/volume 24/7/365 and it will auto-buy in certain circumstances--for instance, if BTC goes under $150 it automatically buys $200 worth, if it goes under $200 but not to $150 it buys $50 worth, and so on. It can be set to sell at certain levels but I'm not selling ANYTHING. As BTC becomes more popular and accepted the price will likely only go up thanks to the finite nature of the currency.

The only thing that sketches me out a bit is that it's almost TOO perfect. Time will tell!

ethernet

what did i send you now? i don't remember lol

Gamerdog6482

I highly recommend everyone interested in the corrupting effect that money has to read the book Capital by Karl Marx.

Capital wasn't anything special, it was really just a big ass description of English and American economic systems. But that description is really chilling...when you see that in the 1830s, money was almost universally considered a means to an end, but the onset of the industrial revolution and the growth of factory-based "scalable production" it became the end and everything else became the means.

rupertmandrake

Wait - Bitcoin's not working?? Since when, exactly? All the BTC i have sent & received have worked perfectly for the past 4 years or so, which seems rather impressive to me anyway. I'm confused at your stance. Bitcoin is still in its infancy - compare it to email in 1990. Patience, grasshopper. Decentralized exchanges are supremely powerful.

Please explain how Bitcoin's "creation wasn;t transparent" - the blockchain is 100% transparent and public. This is the knowledge that used to be only accessible to bankers/priests/elites, but now is sunshined for all to see and use.

xanaxinator

I also believe that BTC is a great way to go. It's decentralized, it's proven, it's usury-free, and it works. It's value is all over the place but that's OK. The concept is sound...currency based on your (rather your computers') ability at doing complex math. It's also a boon that there are only a finite amount of BTC in existence.

Currency NEEDS to be backed by something other than faith. Cccpcharm has some great ideas I believe but, right now, BTC (or something like it) is the only thing waiting in the wings and ready to go...today.

Just my $.02.

000cccpcharm

Well I do know that this is a daunting problem, but one that I feel does have a solution. I disagree about money needing backing in order for it to work....the reason, "backing" is and has been used in the past was to ensure honest accounting....Here again all because that accounting was left up to humans...I feel the development of the "system" will allow for flexibility that will be needed in a dynamic monetary system. Bitcoin is great, but in the long run I do not feel that it will replace our present system, and if it did, it would need to be stabalized and revalued so that everyone starts on the same foot

All that being said, I know that if we work together as a team that we can end this crime

xanaxinator

Oh, please do not misunderstand me...I read your (semi) manifesto and I agree with it highly; though I do have some questions about what would back a "new" currency and exactly how it would be issued. The dollar USED to be backed by something tangible (shiny soft yellow metal--then shiny soft silver metal as you know) and BTC are backed by what is basically the ability to perform mass mathematics problems. What would the "Cccpcharm" be backed by--or am I missing the point totally?

I really like your ideas about how to elect "officials"--the problem with that is, as you saw in 2008 and 2012, the computers that handle the vote tabulation are easily mass-manipulated. What would prevent TPTB from doing the same with your idea? What's for sure is that the electoral college is WOEFULLY antiquated and corrupt. A politico should be elected by popular vote...period. The issue is how to ensure that there's no tomfoolery or MitM attacks on the system? I can give you about ten ways to accomplish this in an "enterprise" environment (I'm a Linux "Subject Matter Expert"--yep, that's really my title)--but for "regular people?" Not as easy.

I just learned yesterday that BTC was NOT developed by a shady and unknown Japanese guy as I formerly believed. I think that /u/Lysergia sent me the info but I may be wrong. Basically, there is indeed an "audit trail" for the development of BTC and who, exactly, was involved. I know I saved it in Evernote--after this very important job interview this morning I'll shoot it over to you. You'll take interest if I know you.

Re: usury--I agree that it's EVIL but is it a necessary evil? I mean, shouldn't lenders make SOMETHING for, basically, risking "their" (yeah, I know, it is not theirs by a long shot, but you get me) capital on your idea/property? Admittedly, these "payday loan" outfits that charge 450%APR are just obnoxious scammers, as are the banks, but how will people obtain credit? Me--I don't believe in credit, I have no CCs and no loans. I believe that, if you cannot afford it right NOW, you should not have it. Still, shouldn't lenders make at least a percent or two? Or would you bar lending (with usury) totally? Personally, I think that the "crowdfunding" model might work well for lendees.

I have lots more questions but little time. I will get back to you when I'm back home this afternoon.

Cheers!

000cccpcharm

time is short today....I would say that there is difference between honest lending and usury....If a group of individuals who had honestly earned monies collectively pooled this money together in order to form a institution that makes loans, and then collects interest on these loans....that is honest lending, and is totally legit...USURY... is a group of individuals inserting themselves into a "government" or ruling body....creating "money" out of thin air, for an entire population, then "loaning" this "money" to the people via the government, and while controlling said government use it's authority under the threat of fear based tactics to collect and extract this fraudulent "debt"...

Good luck with the interview today...

xanaxinator

I didn't see this--thank you! The interview went really well--they tossed about every complex Linux question there was at me and I, surprisingly, got them all correct!

I'll know more Monday.

By the way, I printed out that long post that you sent me and marked it up with questions. If you don't mind (and understand that I am NOT second-guessing you or dismissing you) I'd like to type it all out sometime today (hopefully) and get your answers/opinions on some things--we need to do SOMETHING about this usury problem and I believe that you're onto something. I just need to go into your ideas with a little more granularity.

000cccpcharm

Ask away....and....I think it is good that people "second guess" and or question any and everything, particularly related to one who is asking for your allegiance.. To me the internet and my "anon" status are somewhat imperative to the conceptualization of the movement. At no other time will it be more important to JUST listen to and digest ideas, rather than be "tainted" by my looks, facial expressions, overall demeanor and or just basically all the BULLSHIT that "we" have been sold with media based election processes...These mass murdering assholes are quickly plunging us into WW3 with a BAD future in the Ukraine. We must act quickly and we must act globally in order to take away the "toys" of these spoiled children who are destroying the earth....Adults need to be back in charge....Again I ask...all the years you have know what "it" is.....who among them all has said...."I know what to do, and I know how to do it" If I will not lead you out of this mess....who will?

000cccpcharm

Look the concept of bitcoin is great...I belive CC's can be the foundation and basic architecture for what will call "the peoples money"...for now. IF bitcoin was started in a way where its propagation was not "anonymous" if it's creation was a collective known start, where at the very least it's creation by even a small group was"public" and "known" with it's intent, then perhaps it would be more acceptable.

The mechanics, the process, the concept are very "perfect" as I said, a model for a future currency in many ways. However it was not started by the people, for the people. It's initial start up was small, word of mouth, and basically gave those with "faith" the ability to get in early, this allowed for people who had faith to take advantage of this...That is not a currency that can be assimilated to all, that is much more likend to getting in on a good stock before it goes up. Great for people who got in and "made" money, but based on this uneqaul start, it cannot be assimilated to the general population without distinct disadvantage to those who would start using it well after it's creation.

Furthermore, a CC, that being all of them, that is basing it's valuation in/on debt based currency is nothing more than a fluctuating commodity that will always be subject to the valuation of the debt based currency it is basing it's value on debt...This also does not work in the long run.

So wehn I say "bitcoin is not working" that depends on what you mean by "not working" and or won't be a viable replacement for the global population.

The "peoples" money will be a well thought out monetary system that will be design to serve the will of the people, with no one single entity,group,person being able to profit off the creation of the currency, no "debt" shall be attached to it's creation. This will be a group effort, relying on the brightest most moral minds we have...to create "the machine" the program, the architecture for an incorruptible impervious system that will never be able to be taken advantage of. Inflationary and deflationary cycles are mere illusions and byproducts of debt based currency.

Again if bitcoin was "transparent" we'd know who satoshi was, who he worked with, who were the first founders in the blockchain...let alone the ridiculous expenditure in electricity running mining machines....this is the equivalent of raping the earth wasting energy to get gold...both completely unnecessary....just like usd, just like bitcoin...the only reason they have value is because people THINK they do...it is "faith"....faith based currency works great ,,,AS LONG AS NO ONE IS PROFITING OFF IT'S CREATION WITH COMPOUNDING DAILY INTEREST

rupertmandrake

I hear you with your stance re: Bitcoin's mining / proof-of-work (PoW) system, and how it can be perceived to be inherently "wasteful" - but with this system comes incredible security, where it's now effectively impossible to game the network and attempt to undue it, as the amount of computer power required to do so is unobtainable (apart from the NSA perhaps). So while on the one hand it can be seen as being inefficient - it is extremely effective at doing it's job, the network is robust and highly secured. Perhaps a more salient argument can be made about the centralization of mining and the effects that has on the ecosystem. However that's temporary, and only remains an issue during the distribution phase, which is coming to an end...

There are alternate Blockchains out now, which have tackled the "wasteful" PoW problem via other methods, such as Proof of Stake, and even the more democratic Delegated Proof of Stake - look at what BitShares is up to - talk about power. They also have pegged assets which could solve the volatility and financial reporting problems - there are assets trading on the BitShares network which are pegged to the USD, CNY, Euro, Gold, Silver, etc. (Tho one could argue about the stability of any fiat, in the long run.) The BitShares technology has the power to completely cut out all middlemen from the financial and transactional world, talk about a revolutionary system. They are also developing the world's first and only counterparty-risk-free Bitcoin exchange - where it's impossible to have a Mt. Gox or BitStamp "hack" fiasco - where all these transactions are stored, managed, and completed via the Blockchain, and no 3rd party ever holds the private keys to the coins in question. Leveraging the power of the blockchain as a tool to undue the untold power of these weasels. This is exactly the problem with ALL the current exchanges, and is why we've seen so many hacks, outright thievery and worse from most of them. He who holds the keys has the responsibility (and the temptation, which has proven too strong for some). With BitShares, shorts are covered by a 3x amount of collateral up front, and each transaction on the network has a fee - something that should've been done a long time ago to Wall Street to stop the banksters from being able to rig the system and front run the public, high-speed mega-trades, etc.

However, your point about Bitcoin's genesis being "transparent" seems like hogwash. When Bitcoin launched in 2009 it was just an idea. If you look into the Genesis of it, it seems pretty remarkable at just how transparent it was (Satoshi's identity notwithstanding). Fwiw, i think the idea of it being a government sponsored project may hold merit (this is /v/Conspiracy afterall), as counter to what you seem to be implying, it's trivial for people and Bitcoins to be traced, and only with some clever knowhow are folks able to obscure themselves and their holdings, and even then, cashing out brings problems. Because of this - other "dark" coins have been developed, directly to counter the fact that Bitcoin is so utterly non-anonymous & traceable. The fact that the media keeps harping on this supposedly "anonymous" feature seems telling, cuz it's very far from the truth with Bitcoin and other clones.

..the only reason they have value is because people THINK they do...it is "faith"

If you can't see the value in a global network where one can send resources to anyone else on the planet, in minutes, for virutally no fee - then I'd invite you to watch this 6 minute video as they've done a very good job of explaning the effectiveness of this radical tool. Up until this technology, in order to move any sort of resources required the "blessings" of the priest class - the bankers, the lawyers, the transfer agents, and on and on - all people inbetween you and your mission, all taking a cut for doing the "service" of moving your resources for you - utterly unnecessary with this enabling technology. That is huge.

Lastly, yes, currently the value of Bitcoin is currently volatile, and one can expect it to remain that way for another year or so - summer of 2016 is when the supply rate will be cut in half once more, and one can then expect to see a stabilization of volatility, until then it's a bit of a gamble to hold in the short term. However, due to new technologies being developed, if stability is desired, it's now becoming easier and easier to move from BTC into fiat or something else, and that ease will only increase over time, so it's not required to hold BTC, and thus eliminating the volatility issue compeletely, if so desired, thus price swings are effectively moot. Tho they do make a coy, cutesy issue for those who have much to lose (and who lack perspective) to poke at.

xanaxinator

Wow, what a great post!

This is my first permalink on Voat...and its also going into my permanent knowledge database...which is quite an achievement for anybody--so thank you sir!

rupertmandrake

You're most welcome, and thank you for the kind words!

000cccpcharm

There is no government, there has been no legitimate government since 1913. An election process where the choices are controlled, where the dissemination of the vetting process is controlled 100% is merely a gang controlling the media, dictating the election, thus dictating the "leaders" which now have "legitimacy" granted via fooling unknowing people,, thus allowing these legitamizers of usury to 1. dictate that the banks that put them there in the first place are to be in control of currency creation that has debt attached to it, and 2. rack up as much debt as possible via deficit budget spending.

This fraudulent debt will be negated and the people in charge of the usury scam will be punished. There will be a stock market when I am done with it all, but it will not be functioning as it does now, the majority of the current big players will be rotting in prison for the rest of their lives. Central bankers of all nations and the corporate hydra connected to it will be punished...every last one of them. The network of survelience that has been created to be used against you will be used against them to unravel the details about who did what...from the top dog owners of the central banks to the scumbag kid who worked for a shill factory spreading disinformation for them, All will be held accountable.

000cccpcharm

and just so we are clear, we're not talking about "Jim" the teller at wells fargo....we are talking about the central banks, the board members and all the "banks" that make up the central banks...the guys in charge of creating the currency supply and then turning it into a credit card...

000cccpcharm

Well obviously it's not working that way....its not working that way because all the 90,80,70,60,50 year old dumbfucks who grew up as brainwashed sheep under the watchful eye of the media cult machine are kinda fucking stupid when it comes to understanding money....they pretty much got trained to only thing about going out there and "getting" the money after it has been made....and at the same time got trained to never ever look at where the money comes from, who's in charge and how much it cost....so thats great if you want to go back to the dark ages and trade wheat for horse shoes....but some of us understand whats going on and why, and are pretty much sick of it and working on changing it...I hope you will join us....all you need to do to do that is go ..."ya, I want it to be better" and then when the time comes...act, by simply joining us in faith....simply belive along with all the other that the new currency is good and use it....thats all you need to do....when the time comes....so if your with it in principal....when I and my crew have liberated you from the usurers...all you need to do is "believe" and use it.

000cccpcharm

Modern society need a means of exchange....I'm not going to debate the short comings of bartering...That being said "we" don;t need a way around "money" we need a clean monetary system that creates "real" money that does not enslave humanity to a few people who are in charge of creating debt based money....You need a debt free system created at cost. Then there is no need for bartering if you don;t want to...There is no income tax, there is no fraudulent debt, there is only keeping what you earn....with services agreed on and paid for with apportioned taxation.