threesevens

The UFO conspiracy environment is corrupted with a lot of disinformation and discrediting tactics. There's a lot of BS to sift through.

zen_music

Very true. I read a bunch of stuff last night, now this morning I'm sitting here thinking: the whole thing about UFOs and aliens is just a part of this experience. By far more important is the revelation that the lies and crime and suborning and viciousness and unimaginable cruelty all go so very much deeper than I've ever thought about. That's the issue now. I'll get back to UFOs, or rather take in what I can along the way, but I got to tell you, I'm baffled this morning about where you set out to understand, never mind correct, this incredibly ugly human condition where lies and more lies are, most likely, the object of a lot of glee and wild craziness among the group that creates it.

Clearly I am an innocent lamb. Led a pretty sheltered life, I admit it. It's so disappointing. I remember reading in a book by Scott Peck years ago, "People Of The Lie", that most of us are so conditioned away from believing the worst of others, that when we encounter something truly evil we have no mental framework with which to perceive it! And so, end up not even comprehending what we're looking at. I feel that way now. My thanks to these more experienced souls who have given me such a poor night's rest; I do thank you. I still have no idea what I might do with this information, but at least I'm not as asleep as I was yesterday. That has to count for something, right?

Thanks again. I'm not looking forward to this course of study.

threesevens

Really this kind of disinformation awareness applies to almost any kind of study, whether history or occult or conspiracy. You always have to be aware of those that are there to lead you in the wrong direction through diversionary tactics or outright lies. I would strongly suggest the work of Mark Passio , who has been my guide and mentor. He has a podcast which if you listen to from the first one will give you a broad and deep knowledge base with which to work from. You might want to start here with his Natural Law Seminar . Congratulations on taking the first steps of this journey, you will be rewarded for your work with greater awareness and wisdom about our world.

zen_music

I smile at your assumption of my youth; haha, thanks! I think... but yeah, I am uninformed, or more accurately, ignorant. I'll look up your suggestions. "big-lies" is a copy layout nightmare...

zen_music

I've had a few experiences that I'd be unwilling to repeat; makes me a little elevated to have even asked this question. But I very much appreciate these sources. Thanks.

zyxzevn

I have studied the UFO phenomenon for quite some time, speaking with witnesses, investigating sightings. I also investigated other stuff. Investigating it yourself is the only way you can get the truth about it.

My hypothesis is that there are many outer-dimensional beings, outside our common 3D physical world. See Jacques Vallee. It fits with almost all serious witness accounts and evidence that I have met so far.

The photographs will become blurry due to the dimensions overlapping.
They appear at certain places because these places are more open to other dimensions.
The witnesses often have more connection to other dimensions, and often have spiritual capabilities.

The best UFO evidence often show light-balls that move in a weird way and can get close to physical objects. The foo-fightser, Hessdalen and most mexican sightings are in this category.

Other sightings, including abductions have a more Oz-effect on them. That may indicate that reality is somehow broken.

There is also interesting research into abductions and cow-mutulations.
Linda Molton Howle has good information about it. She has a lot of interesting information about this. The idea that she presents is very scary: both aliens and military are actively abducting and manipulating people for different agendas. From my hypothesis, this would only be possible on certain places and under certain circumstances (and possibly with certain people).

There certainly is an involvement of the military in this matter. There are many ufo-sightings that were later followed by military actions in some way. They certainly have some information that the are not sharing. They seem to use the UFO phenomenon in many ways:
1) Continuous declarations of that they are fake, as if they are not taken seriously in whatever way.
2) Sightings are send to a central base, were they are kept secret.
3) Planting of hoaxes.
4) Planting of fake explanations (U2/Mongul anyone?).
5) Hiding of extraordinary technology (Aurora/pulse-engine).

Anyone who has seen the published documents, will have spotted the many black lines involved in these cases. There is 100% proof of that they are hiding something. Since some sightings are directly related to nukes, these sightings should be considered very important.

The disclosure project goes a lot deeper. It tries to expose many of the military operations on the UFO subject. My own opinion is that many of these people were informed with false information, so that their interesting findings would be easy to dismiss.
The first atomic bomb has been kept totally secret for a long time, by using small cells of specialized people that each know nothing about the subject. You can that a similar structure is used in the UFO phenomenon.

Besides the military there is also a very active community that is attacking everything related to UFOs and aliens. Often they stage hoaxes too.

That does not mean that there are no hoaxes. There are many youtube-channels out there that just claim every bird or rocket launch to be a UFO. Some other channels show that certain UFOs are CGI-hoaxes or caused by reflections in the sky. But they often generalize that this means that everything is a hoax.

And not everything UFO is aliens either. And, as I witnessed myself, there is far more than our society accepts.

zen_music

Not to disagree, but at the moment I'm more into 'stuff' and why I can't get a good look at it... the whole topic of whether or not things exist is a background investigation to my current puzzlement that what's available is so fumblefooted. But hey, what do I know? Nothing.

xeemee

if your root question is whether we are/have been visited by our "off-world brothers" as i call them, then i don't think i could expand a hell of a lot more than what @deerhoof_fan says - there is simply no doubt

however, the problem is that there is a lot of disinformation out there - for instance, if i saw a UFO today, my first ? would be; is it ours, or theirs?

there are plenty of images that are not blurry - look into the Billy Meier case for example - it is probably one of the most extensively documented cases there is, spanning many years, with many corroborating witnesses

Steven Greer is a long-time researcher - his work has influenced the ET/UFO community heavily - one of the projects he runs is CSETI (Center for the Study of Extraterrestrial Intelligence) - there are chapters all over the world and their goal is to make a peaceful connection with ET's - there's lots of video and images in their archives

if you have not seen Greer's presentation that he gave in 2001 (it was overshadowed by 9-11) at the National Press Club in DC, i highly recommend watching it

most importantly - and this is KEY to understanding why the matter has been so covered up - is the simple, logical fact that "they" are not using fossil-based fuels or rockets to get here - now imagine the consequences that 'big oil' would have to face if this technology were released to the public - this would - not 'could' - lead to a complete transformation of society

in the long run, i'm not exactly sure what to make of Greer, but there can be no doubt that a) we have been visited and b) they ain't burnin' gasoline - they must be "traveling" at "speeds" that are faster than light - you'll understand why i put those words in quotes if you study Greer's work ... or quantum physics

you'll also find a lot of info in the Project Camelot whistle-blower archive - i highly suggest all videos with Bob Dean

zen_music

Thanks for your considered reply. I'll happily check the sources you quote. You ask about my root question, whether we are/have been visited, and it's more that I've begun to think, "I should check this out", only to find the file of information rather smaller than I expected and kind of smudged. And I'm thinking, "There's been so much effort put into this...why aren't the results a little more coherent?"

Regarding the 'big oil' reference, that's understandable- if we've learned anything at all lately, it's that money talks- but I'd have thought the offworlders themselves wouldn't mind clearing things up a bit. Unless they're thinking of us in the way we think of seeing a few ants around the house, wondering if there's a nest somewhere we'll have to do something about. Off to click blue lines...

xeemee

but I'd have thought the offworlders themselves wouldn't mind clearing things up a bit.

we're getting into theories here, not facts, but the presiding belief among the ET community is that they have a "non interference" policy which, when you consider the nuclear minute-man silo interventions where multiple military personal have testified (watch the National Press Club event i linked to) that UFO interfered with their ability to launch, does not seem entirely accurate - make of it what you will, but, to put it another way, don't expect them to land on the whitehouse lawn - we have to solve our own problems, especially if we want to be free - expecting someone else to intervene teaches us nothing, i think you might agree

it is a VERY common question though - study the works others and myself linked to - you'll quickly get the picture

also check these out...

Dr. Steven Greer - Nov. 21, 2015 - How the Secret Government Works: The Most Explosive Expose

Sirius Disclosure - large archive of talks by Greer

zen_music

I will, thank you. Fascinating listening to Steven Greer; though I won't decide for some time yet, I must say his statements seem practical and likely. Especially where he suggests that he is still alive because of a standoff between power-groups. If I were he, I would be concerned for my family. If roadside police can be vicious, how black is a black-op heart?

Edit to add: I see what you mean about a non-interference policy. On the other hand, any student of humans would quickly learn that it's dumb to allow that bully room to swing his fist. Scale that up to the energies we're thinking about, and if I were an ET, I'd be damn careful with how close I let a human mind approach me. And if, as Greer suggests, humans have been working with these energies for sixty years now, that approach may not be as unformed as I've been supposing....

xeemee

basically Greer posits that there are people deep on the inside that want this information to come out and that's why he is protected

when you dig into this further, i think you'll find that it's the people that tried to expose secrets in an a limited, anonymous way that committed "suicide" by shooting themselves ... in the back of the head ... twice :)

there are many examples, such as those that tried to patent resonant energy technology (study Tesla) - they get bought out, discredited, arrested, or killed when all else fails

Greer, and many others, have taken an opposite approach by blasting it into the public record and this does indeed seem to offer them a degree of protection

again though, be careful who you trust - at this point i personally have little reason to distrust Greer, yet i sense something is not exactly right - maybe he's just holding back information, maybe more, or maybe not - there are only a few people who i absolutely feel are 100% creditable and one of them is Bob Dean - another is Miriam Delicado - BUT, even in these cases, although i know for myself that these people are authentic and ethical, what i don't know is whether they were lied to

keep researching - it's a fascinating road!

and here's some bonus material...

look into Phil Schneider - he is one more of the very few people i trust whose ethics are absolutely unquestionable from my perspective - he "killed himself" by wrapping a rubber hose around his neck in an very unlikely "suicide" (read the autopsy reports) - it's people like this, who have been murdered, that you can bet know the truth, or at least significant parts thereof

zen_music

All right, thanks, I'll check it all out. Just came off several hours of research and my head is like a pumpkin.

deerhoof_fan

Anyone who has more than a cursory exposure to the subject knows that hardcore evidence exists, and that UFOs are a 100% real, documented phenomenon.

While possibly not aliens, definitely UFOs :

ASTRONAUTS

"I believe that these extraterrestrial vehicles and their crews are visiting this planet from other planets which obviously are a little more technically advanced than we are here on Earth."

— Colonel Gordon Cooper, Mercury / Gemini Astronaut

"I happen to be privileged enough to be in on the fact that we have been visited on this planet and the UFO phenomenon is real. It has been covered up by governments for quite some time now."

— Captain Edgar Mitchell, Apollo 14 Astronaut

"...I've been asked [about UFOs] and I've said publicly I thought they [UFOs] were somebody else, some other civilization."

— Astronaut Eugene Cernan, Apollo 17 Commander

"I was testing a P-51 fighter in Minneapolis when I spotted this object. [...] It looked like a saucer, a disk. About the same time, I realized that it was suddenly going away from me - and there I was, running at about 300 miles per hour. I tracked it for a little way, and then all of a sudden the damn thing just took off. It pulled about a 45 degree climbing turn and accelerated and just flat disappeared."

— Captain Donald Slayton, Mercury Astronaut

"Statistically it's a certainty there are hugely advanced civilizations, intelligence, life forms out there. I believe they're so advanced they're even doing interstellar travel. I believe it's possible they even came here."

— Dr. Storey Musgrave, NASA Astronaut

"For nearly 50 years, the secrecy apparatus within the United States Government has kept from the public UFO and alien contact information." "We have contact with alien cultures."

Astronaut Dr. Brian O'Leary

"In my official status, I cannot comment on ET contact. However, personally, I can assure you, we are not alone!"

— Charles J. Camarda (Ph.D.), NASA Astronaut


NASA, CIA, ARMY, AIR FORCE ETC

"Unknown objects are operating under intelligent control... It is imperative that we learn where UFOs come from and what their purpose is..." (1) "Behind the scenes, high-ranking Air Force officers are soberly concerned about the UFOs. But through official secrecy and ridicule, many citizens are led to believe that unknown flying objects are nonsense." (2)

— Admiral Roscoe Hillenkoetter, first Director of the CIA, 1947-1950

"We had a job to do, wether right or wrong, to keep the public from getting excited." (2)

— Dr. J. Allen Hynek, Scientific consultant for Air Force Project Blue Book

"Of course UFOs are real, and they are interplanetary. The cumulative evidence for the existence of UFOs is quite overwhelming and I accept the fact of their existence."

— Air Chief Marshall Lord Hugh Dowding, Commanding Officer of the Royal Air Force during WWII

"We must insist upon full access to disks recovered. For instance, in the La case the Army grabbed it and would not let us have it for cursory examination."

— J. Edgar Hoover, first Director of the FBI

"We already have the means to travel among the stars, but these technologies are locked up in black projects and it would take an act of God to ever get them out to benefit humanity... anything you can imagine we already know how to do."

— Ben Rich, former Head of the Lockheed Skunk Works

"This 'flying saucer' situation is not at all imaginary or seeing too much in some natural phenomena. Something is really flying around. The phenomenon is something real and not visionary or fictitious."

— General Nathan Twining, US Air Force, Chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff 1955-1958

"Unidentified Flying Objects are entering our atmosphere at very high speeds and obviously under intelligent control. We must solve this riddle without delay."

— Rear Admiral Delmar Fahrney, USNR

"The nations of the world will have to unite, for the next war will be an interplanetary war. The nations of the earth must someday make a common front against attack by people from other planets".

— General Douglas MacArthur


ROCKET SCIENTISTS / PHYSICISTS

"It is my thesis that flying saucers are real and that they are space ships from another solar system. There is no doubt in my mind that these objects are interplanetary craft of some sort. I and my colleagues are confident that they do not originate in our solar system."

— Dr. Hermann Oberth, the "father of modern rocketry"

"The least improbable explanation is that these things are artificial and controlled... My opinion for some time has been that they have an extraterrestrial origin."

— Dr. Maurice Biot, leading aerodynamicists and mathematical physicist

"The possibility of reduced-time interstellar travel either by advanced extraterrestrial civilizations at present or ourselves in the future, is not fundamentally constrained by physical principles."

— Dr. Harold Puthoff, Director, Institute for advanced studies at Austin, Author of fundamentals of Quantum Electronics


SOVIET / U.S. PRESIDENTS

"The phenomenon of UFOs is real. I know that there are scientific organisations which study the problem. It must be treated seriously."

— Soviet President Mikhail Gorbachev

"I can assure you that flying saucers, given that they exist, are not constructed by any power on earth."

— President Harry S. Truman

"...I strongly recomment that there be a committee investigation of the UFO phenomena. I think we owe it to the people to establish credibility regarding UFOs and to produce the greatest possible enlightenment on this subject."

— President Gerald Ford

"I don't laugh at people any more when they say they've seen UFOs. It was the darndest thing I've ever seen. It was big, it was very bright, it changed colors and it was about the size of the moon. We watched it for ten minutes, but none of us could figure out what it was."

— President Jimmy Carter

"I looked out the window and saw this white light. It was zigzagging around. I went up to the pilot and said, have you ever seen anything like that? He was shocked and he said, "Nope." And I said to him: "Let's follow it!" We followed it for several minutes. It was a bright white light. We followed it to Bakersfield, and all of a sudden to our utter amazement it went straight up into the heavens. When I got off the plane I told Nancy all about it."

"I occasionally think how quickly our differences worldwide would vanish if we were facing an alien threat from outside of this world."

— President Ronald Reagan

Anyone is welcome to provide evidence that a quote is legitimately out of context, and I will remove it.

All credit goes to /u/Alx__ (on reddit) for compiling these. Sources for these quotes can be found at http://spaceflare.net . Many of them are on video, in context. For example, this one.

It is recognized that quotes are not proof. However:

There is compelling evidence that UFOs are physical phenomena, not imaginary or hallucinatory. They are captured on radar that only detects physical objects, and perform feats not explainable by known physics. 90-95% of sightings can be explained by known phenomena, but 5-10% cannot.

Source: The COMETA Report (published by the French government):

Part 1: http://www.ufoevidence.org/newsite/files/COMETA_part1.pdf
Part 2: http://www.ufoevidence.org/newsite/files/COMETA_part2.pdf

The former Governor of Arizona, also former pilot and Air Force officer , who witnessed the Phoenix Lights firsthand, describes the experience: https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=2SJXMBHByZY

UFOSKEPTIC.ORG , run by professional astrophysicist Bernard Haisch , was recommended by /r/askscience Mod /u/wbeaty , who also created and maintains amasci.com , a fantastic scientific resource in its own right.


More:

Regarding physical evidence -- there is little to none, other than trace evidence like evidence of exposure to high-powered electromagnetic fields in grass where craft are said to have landed.

Radar evidence
http://www.nicap.org/whatradar.htm
http://www.ufoevidence.org/documents/doc614.htm

UFOs defy known physics:
http://www.ufoevidence.org/cases/case334.htm (one case of many)


FAQ

"The government wouldn't cover it up." - The US government didn't acknowledge the existence of Area 51 until last year.

Evidence of UFOs is compelling to the extent that to deny their existence is tantamount to science denial. Earnest study of available information makes it impossible to come away with the impression that they could be fictitious or hallucinatory. While this comment is just an introduction, it includes sources that can be explored to satisfy any doubts.

MUCH MORE here: http://www.reddit.com/r/worldnews/comments/wtabz/computer_hacker_gary_mckinnon_has_no_choice_but/c5gbmqz

zen_music

Thanks, I really appreciate these contacts.

deerhoof_fan

For an excellent documentary on the best documented, most inexplicable cases of UFO sightings, check out "I Know What I Saw."

critias

I used to be very interested in UFOs, crop circles, Martian artifacts and other paranormal subjects when I was in my mid-teens. I used to watch all of the shows and read books about it.

As I grew up I started to realize that most fantastic things in our society match a theme of stories that are purely for entertainment and or influence. I found that most stories in human history are witnessed by uneducated, uninformed people who become useful idiots in perpetuating these tales for financial and political gain or to simply provide a distraction form real-world issues.

Reality is far more interesting but it is also a lot more troublesome. It's troublesome for the common people because if they knew the reality of things they would see how bad things are and also troublesome to the elite ruling class who do no want their subjects to revolt and to change reality.

I categorize aliens in with religion and entertainment. The fact is that the universe what with expansion and size almost completely negate the possibility of alien visitors. I won't say one way or another if they have been here because it's a pointless argument. I will say that we once believe a being came from another dimension or universe to create our universe and we called it God. We now know that god and religion were used to control populations by adjusting morality and feeding the masses promises and threats.

In this I see aliens as the same construct for a new generation.

We have many things in this world that are false but deemed as possible for the sake of keeping people distracted and loyal. Terrorism, religion, cult followings. They all use fear of the unknown to keep people passive.

The reality is not that we will be in contact with aliens. The reality is that we are being systematically abused and maneuvered in an attempt to reduce quality of life in this planet for the sake of the elite ruling class and that instead of wasting time with superstition, we should be trying to make the planet a utopia and create a promise of a future.

zen_music

Thank you. I agree with a large part of what you've said, most particularly your final paragraph. Certainly I'm not expecting somebody to come visit me any time soon; and I get what you're saying about the 'useful idiots', of which I may be one.

It's interesting to see that the idea of benevolent contact that was so much a part of my youth in the 50s and 60s seems to have given way to a much harsher, 'warriors from afar who know more than we do and haven't done us in just because we're insignificant' kind of rubric. So we're cast now in the place of having to 'steal' technology, and being told to 'stay away, you won't be tolerated here'.

I don't suppose I really care one way or the other if they're there (here), I just don't understand what is gained by secrecy and obfuscation. And, why some of the 'useful idiots' make some sense.

critias

The whole secrecy angle is just a way to perpetuate the mythos. There is nothing to hide but by pretending there is they can keep people paranoid. It also makes the government look more powerful than they really are.